Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Joseph Stalins's religious views


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. &mdash;Darkwind (talk) 04:07, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Joseph Stalins's religious views

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

New article appears to be OR. Sourced to a single non-RS source. LavaBaron (talk) 18:44, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Religion-related deletion discussions.  Everymorning   talk  18:52, 21 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Deletess's, my precious. He was born in a religious family and became an atheistic communist? Don't need an article for that. And who is this Joseph Stalins anyway? Clarityfiend (talk) 22:14, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep and make something similar to Religious views of Adolf Hitler, after changing the title to "Religious views of Joseph Stalin".  Occult Zone  (Talk • Contributions • Log) 22:21, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Are you volunteering to do all that? If so, I'll change my !vote to Keep. LavaBaron (talk) 23:40, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes I can try.  Occult Zone  (Talk • Contributions • Log) 00:32, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Shall we move this to draft space for the time being? I agree that the topic is potentially notable but the current version isn't at all suitable for article space. --Arxiloxos (talk) 01:13, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Agree that it should be moved to draft space.  Occult Zone  (Talk • Contributions • Log) 01:52, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
 * As per above discussion, I change my !vote to Keep conditioned on article being moved to draft space pending improvement. LavaBaron (talk) 04:47, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Atheism-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 18:37, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 18:37, 23 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete. Unlike Hitler, Stalin had no religious views whatsoever. That's why this page is so small. We do not need a page only to tell that Stalin had no religious views. This is just another page on subject that does not exist. My very best wishes (talk) 04:14, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Stalin ordered the recreation of Churches during World War 2, I am sure there are many other interesting facts to note.  Occult Zone  (Talk • Contributions • Log) 00:44, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
 * We are not talking about policies by Stalin with respect to religious organizations (recreation or destruction of churches). That would be an important and legitimate subject, and it has been already described on a number of pages. We are talking about his personal religious views. All books I read about Stalin tell nothing about his religious views except noticing that he apparently did not believe in anything of this nature. If you read something about this, please tell me what it was. I would be surprised. My very best wishes (talk) 04:35, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
 * What books have you read about Stalin?  —Мандичка YO 😜 16:07, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
 * A lot, from standard Soviet textbooks on the history of CPSU to "The Origin of Partocracy" by Abdurakhman Avtorkhanov. But that's not important. What's important is that no one so far was able to provide any reliably sourced content about personal religious views by Stalin. My very best wishes (talk) 20:04, 30 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep: Currently a poor article, but that in itself is not a reason to delete. Could clearly be improved with many reliable sources. AusLondonder (talk) 16:37, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Exactly my point Smile.svg.  Occult Zone  (Talk • Contributions • Log) 16:38, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Davewild (talk) 15:43, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Strong keep/rename to Religious views of Josef Stalin or even better, Josef Stalin and religion, so in addition to his personal religious views, can discuss his interaction with the church and religious leaders. This has been extensively studied, discussed and analyzed. The length and citations of the Russian article should be a clue.  if you need help let me know. If there ever was a nomination for the AfD Hall of Shame, this is it.  —Мандичка YO 😜 16:07, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep and move to a better title (no preference now). The Joesph Stalin's views on religion significantly shaped the religious policies of the Soviet Union. These policies have had widespread effect on the modern world. Additionally, a rough machine translation of the Russian article demonstrates that this topic is significantly covered in reliable sources to meet notability guidelines. Winner 42 Talk to me!  16:37, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep, obviously a notable topic, WP:UGLY is not a valid reason to delete it. I also support a move as suggested above. Cavarrone 16:46, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete: A proper subject for Joseph Stalin, but a fork otherwise, and not a particularly fruitful one. Stalin's personal religious views may have had effects on his public acts, but that is an ongoing argument for biography and history. As a public individual, though, which is where we live, we have the facts of his actions and the tenuous and shifting discussion of interpreters. The fact that the maniacs who want to use Hitler's religion, heterodoxy, or theosophism to justify their own ongoing political agendas can sustain a fork article there doesn't mean it's a good idea. This is an improper fork from the biographical article and an invitation to ongoing culture warring via Wikipedia. Hithladaeus (talk) 19:29, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't think you understand what a fork is - if you're talking about a WP:SPINOFF, there's nothing wrong with that and spinoffs are often encouraged. If something is a "proper subject" for the Josef Stalin article, and it's been shown there is sufficient content to sustain its own article, then that's all the reason to make it a spinoff. If you're trying to talk about WP:POVFORK, that makes even less sense. (I'm not even going to ask what "maniacs" are doing to exploit the article about Hitler's views on religion.) AfD is about determining notability, not about what you think is a "bad idea" for an article because it might cause controversy. —Мандичка YO 😜 20:48, 29 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Comment. This "article" is just a few unsourced phrases copy-pasted from other pages. Even if it will be deleted, nothing prevents anyone from re-creating this page under this or a different title. Just care to provide some meaningful content and appropriate referencing, please. Right now this is lacking. Speaking about the page on ruwiki ("Stalin and religion"), it describes a different subject: Stalin's policies with respect to religious organizations, not his religious beliefs. He had none to my knowledge, even though he spent some time in a theological seminary. But this is easy to disprove. Just bring the sources which tell something different.  My very best wishes (talk) 19:52, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep. Religious views doesn't mean only "deeply held personal beliefs on the theological nature of the deity", and it would be highly appropriate to expand this with discussions of state religious policy under Stalin.  See for comparison this big chunk of the article Religious views of Adolf Hitler.--Pharos (talk) 19:49, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
 * You linked to a paragraph entitled "Role of religion in the Nazi state". Well, if someone could create a page Role of religion in the Soviet state with appropriate referencing, that would be fine, although this should be new page on a very different subject. Now, speaking about religious policy under Stalin (yet another different subject), we have this already described on many other pages. My very best wishes (talk) 19:06, 3 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete without prejudice to competent recreation, and I say this as the guy who wrote the probably more marginal Stalin's poetry. (I mean, I wrote the article, not the poetry.) The topic is likely notable, but the content is worthless. The article reads "Joseph Stalin was an atheist[citation needed]." Seriously? That's what we need an article for? Of course, once somebody writes a sourced article that goes beyond what we currently have in the main article, they're welcome to put it in this plave.  Sandstein   18:35, 6 June 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.