Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Joseph and Melissa Batten


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. The article's subject is found to be notable, per the sources provided below. &mdash; Coffee //  have a cup  //  beans  // 10:18, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

Joseph and Melissa Batten

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Non-notable domestic violence (murder-suicide) case involving non-notable persons. No significant coverage beyond local news, no legal precedents. Fails WP:CRIME and WP:NOTNEWS. I also find it bizarre that the murderer and his victim are given a joint biography. - hahnch e n 20:06, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep or move back to Draft. Most commonly, I work on articles about and related to games.  So when I found this interesting story, I was floored.  Is it notable to have a murder within the gaming industry?  I don't know, but I have never heard of a game designer killing another game designer.  The Battens themselves may or may not be notable, but they have both worked on some pretty notable projects.  I did not think that separate articles, or even an article on either individual, made much sense so I wrote one for both.  The murder itself seems to have plenty of coverage, both from the local news and sources like Fortune, Kotaku and The Escapist, as well as the print source Designers & Dragons (which describes the crime as "one of the more shocking events in RPG's history") where I first learned of this case.  There were a bunch of blogs on my Google search, which I did not use, and I did not know if I should use Whatifgaming even though it had an interview from her work on Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts.  This article in its current state is not my best work, I will grant you that, but I have never started an article on a crime before.  I first posted to the WP:VG talk page for advice, and got responses from GamerPro64, Jeraphine Gryphon, Izno, Czar, 1bandsaw, Fakedeeps, and Salvidrim!, some of whom also did some minor edits to the article.  I could solve the "bizarre" joint biography by splitting them into two sections, but I was not sure if that was necessary.  I was also unsure of what the article's name should be, so that could be changed by anyone with a better idea than me. I was also unsure of what exactly to do with the lead. BOZ (talk) 22:21, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep - the sources appear to me to be more than just local news. 1bandsaw (talk) 23:07, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete. Nothing remarkable about this incident. Husband kills wife then tops self. Happens somewhere every day. WP:NOTNEWSPAPER. WWGB (talk) 23:58, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep per BOZ. The article's title and content can be adjusted, but the event/people have been covered by different reliable sources so there's enough content to base an article on. Also I found these additional sources: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/18/us/facing-protective-orders-and-allowed-to-keep-guns.html?_r=0 and http://www.komonews.com/news/local/26163179.html (Komo News) — Jeraphine Gryphon (talk) 08:25, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I've filled in the bare-url refs, does it look more solid now? — Jeraphine Gryphon (talk) 14:45, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete I think it could make a wikinews article since it is news, but the point of an encyclopedia is that you take a ton of different sources and compile them to create an encyclopedic narrative. Someone Googling this will get the same story from Wikipedia or any news article, I don't think the topic is broad enough that combining multiple sources will create anything more than is already there. Wikinews yes, Wikipedia I don't think so. Bryce Carmony (talk) 12:27, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of video game-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 15:23, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Washington-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:23, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:24, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:24, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

Nominator comment - Despite the NYTimes and Fortune sources above, I'm reiterating my stance in favour of deletion. Wikipedia is not a newspaper, I'd expect significantly more coverage of a news event for it to be considered in an encyclopedia, I'd expect national sources to dedicate articles to the crime, not have a few paragraph on it half-way down on a page filled with other murders. Had it been a cultural object, such as a video game, we'd expect previews, reviews and interviews in national-level publications - we have none of this here. - hahnch e n 21:54, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep. The coverage is a bit light, but it's still there.  The crime was highlighted by The New York Times in an article about murder-suicides related to domestic violence, and they specifically mentioned that it "made headlines".  This seems to be an implicit statement of notability on their part.  I can see how people would argue that it's perhaps more applicable to Wikinews, but I think it squeaks by the GNG. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 17:37, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Merge Agree with opening (hahnch). Notability is questionable here; but the point is that victims of this domestic violence and their lives were not so domestic. Again, agree over joint biography goof - titles and POV should be different. However, if the event has been covered by significant sources and had notable impact on relevant communities - it might be legible as article. I recommend search and presentation of sources noting enduring effects; or incorporation of information into appropriate (possibly to be created) article, timeline or list. Fakedeeps (talk) 18:34, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep - covers barely WP:CRIME and WP:GNG but still it is within the treshold for inclusion. That is my view.--BabbaQ (talk) 22:13, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep - The situation was highlighted by the NYtimes as a case where gun control laws overshadow rights of victims of domestic victims (in 2013), and was cited by a WA state legislator in the passage of a 2014 state gun control law that involved domestic violence . (in addition to the above aspects). --M ASEM (t) 16:21, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.