Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Josh Griffin (youth pastor)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Staxringold talkcontribs 04:19, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Josh Griffin (youth pastor)

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No evidence this person or any of his projects are even remotely notable. Completely lacks citations to third-party sources. --EEMIV (talk) 23:29, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete No evidence he WP:BIO is satisfied by significant coverage in multiple independent and reliable sources. Notability is not inherited from one's employer. Edison (talk) 23:43, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Furthermore, I have not found any reliably sourced indication that he is indeed the same Josh Griffin who "is a partner" on that Star Wars fansite, but "but no longer plays an active role in the site." Unless reliable sourcing is found and cited, this "fact" should be stripped from all articles about Mr. Griffin and the website. --Orlady (talk) 04:01, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete Fails general notability guideline. The only sources cited in the article or found in Google are his morethandodgeball website and other websites associated with the Saddleback Church. Being associated with famous churches and popular websites does not make a person notable for Wikipedia's purposes unless that person has been the subject of substantial coverage by multiple independent sources -- see WP:N.


 * Leave That's purely your prerogative and not a fact. I would say that being an owner of the largest Star Wars website in the world (and multiple sources were given) is notable enough to meet Wiki criteria, not to mention that he works at arguably the most famous church in the world, Rick Warren's Saddleback Church. I added 10 sources that I simply found by Googling the guy. Had the 2 users who posted above simply taken 2 minutes to Google the guy, they could have avoided this entire situation. Clearly, there was absolutely no effort to confirm his notability. Oh yeah, he also has a profile on Amazon.com - http://www.amazon.com/Joshua-Griffin/e/B002RNZXC8/ref=ntt_dp_epwbk_0 Notability has clearly been established. I move to have this frivolous appeal dropped immediately. Flavius Constantine (talk) 04:02, 22 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete per nomination and reasons given by Edison and Orlady. Also, an Amazon profile means nothing - *anyone* who buys something from them can set one up - it's hardly an indication of notability. MikeWazowski (talk) 04:09, 22 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure about that. Did you even look at his Amazon profile? It sure looks like Amazon set it up. Flavius Constantine (talk) 04:38, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
 * My mistake - it's not an Amazon profile, it's an "Author Central" page, which according to Amazon is "a free service provided by Amazon where you can share information about yourself and your work" - in other words, a self-published primary source, maintained by the author himself, and therefore, not an acceptable independent third-party source. MikeWazowski (talk) 04:46, 22 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete. No significant secondary source coverage that would show notability. Kevin (talk) 04:51, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Weak delete without prejudice. An argument could be made, and has been made, that he is per se notable as a major leader in a megachurch, akin perhaps to an archdeacon, but I'd like to see more proof in terms of reliable sources. Bearian (talk) 23:21, 22 October 2009 (UTC) By the way, being "owner" of the "largest" website of its type does not convey per se notability either, because such notability is not normally inherited.  Again, multiple good sources are needed to verify that. Bearian (talk) 23:24, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep I realize the notability guidelines want a fair number of RS mentions, but I view that as a surrogate for identifying people that some non-trivial number of outsiders might expect to find in an encyclopedia ("outsiders" meaning non family, friends or colleagues). Despite the last of RS, I can imagine that happening in this case. However, I do agree with Bearian that the ownership of a Star Wars website does not confer notability, nor does a self-published author page on Amazon. I don't think it is likely that the Keep voices will prevail, so I offer as a fallback the possibility that the material should be Merged with Saddleback Church.-- SPhilbrick  T  15:58, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
 * It would be OK with me to have a brief discussion of Josh Griffin in Saddleback Church, together with information about other key staff (both current staff and former staff such as Doug Fields). --Orlady (talk) 16:06, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Even I admit that Griffin's notability may be a legitimate discussion, but certainly Doug Fields is notable enough to have his own article. Flavius Constantine (talk) 02:39, 28 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete Founder or leader might be notable, but not every pastor of a megachurch is notable. OhNo itsJamie Talk 15:42, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.