Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jude Calvert-Toulmin


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Subject is an author, photographer and actress but the consensus is that she has not achieved notability, in WIkipedia's sense, in any of these fields. JohnCD (talk) 12:32, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Jude Calvert-Toulmin

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Fails WP:BIO, Non Notable subject with some self published material. Clearly Using Wikipedia for Self promotion Hu12 (talk) 01:14, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 02:35, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Photography-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 02:36, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 02:36, 4 February 2012 (UTC)


 * I updated this page today as I am a fan of Jude Calvert-Toulmin and had read on her blog that she has recently had a leading role in a new film and is appearing next week in a British television show. I've never updated Wikipedia before so have obviously put in content which is deemed unadmissable. I have removed the content I added this morning. Kimmy L-F —Preceding undated comment added 06:35, 4 February 2012 (UTC).
 * Groan. The article was started by an SPA. Her website has the following list of links across the top: Free Kindle Reading App | Email Jude | Wiki | Home | Table Of Contents | Kindle Mother-in-Law, Son-in-Law | Book Mother-in-Law, Son-in-Law | Kindle MY ADVENTURES IN CYBERSPACE | Book MY ADVENTURES IN CYBERSPACE | Fleur De Lys Publishing. My emphasis. Yes, "Wiki" is this article (via a URL-shortening service, strangely). Fleur De Lys publishing is hers, and it's the source for the only evidence in the article that she's a photographer of note. Could this article be just another adventure in cyberspace? I thought I'd click on one of those links to see what kind of adventures these might be. The links go to Amazon, where the products are highly praised by, yes, an SPA. (Unusually, I'm grateful that Amazon isn't on the spam blacklist.) &para; Google News has never heard of her. Delete. -- Hoary (talk) 06:52, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what an SPA is but I have never met the subject and do not know her other than through her work. I became aware/a fan of Jude Calvert-Toulmin via her writing on climbing in the UK nearly ten years ago and have also bought her books (yes, from Amazon). Through her website I've met other fans and although she is not mainstream and recognised by Google News - is this the criteria for noteworthiness? - she does have a large fan base of people around the world who follow her writing. Kimmy L-F (talk) 07:06, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the Wikipedia-speak; "SPA" means special-purpose account. There is plenty of evidence that those whose editing interests in Wikipedia are limited to narrow subject X are more interested in promoting X than they are in improving Wikipedia. I imagine that in Amazon, those who are exclusively writing reviews of the products of the rather little-known person X are more interested in promoting the works of X than they are in informing people. JCT's fanbase may be giant or tiny or even nonexistent; it doesn't matter. What does matter is the existence of reliable sources. So far there's one article from a Sheffield newspaper, and, I think, that's all. Got any more? -- Hoary (talk) 07:19, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Having read one of Jude Calvert-Toulmin's novels, following her blog for some time and recently finding out that she's going to be on the TV Show Come Dine With Me, I decided to have a look around the web to see what else she has going, at the moment. Strangely enough, I came across this discussion/imminent deletion - despite the fact that: a) she's listed as one of the photographers exhibiting at the Pop Icons exhibition - http://www.portelli-popicon.co.uk/index.php?inc=media ; b) she's widely known as an author on many third party sites - http://www.radiotimes.com/episode/pgfjg/come-dine-with-me--10022012, http://www.channel4.com/programmes/come-dine-with-me/episode-guide/series-24/episode-27 or http://nowthenmagazine.com/issue-46/filmreel-2/ (for example); and c) she has a (very much in need of updating) filmography on IMDb - http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2235332/ - certainly incomplete due to her more recent role in the indie film Mercy - http://brianlt.blogspot.com/2012/02/mercy-dark-tale-of-loss-by-joao-paulo.html and http://frontiermedia.blogspot.com/ (that's her in the right-hand side DVD release picture); — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cimino2012 (talk • contribs) 17:08, 4 February 2012 (UTC)  — Cimino2012 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Jude Calvert-Toulmin is also identified as an author in this article: http://www.sheffieldtelegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/food-and-drink/jude_calvert_toulmin_1_451949 and as an author and photojournalist in this article: http://www.thestar.co.uk/lifestyle/features/today_s_woman_taboo_sex_a_winner_for_author_jude_1_267083. As I am in Australia, it's been via these third party sites (including Wikipedia) that I've been able to learn more about her outside of reading her books and blog. In editing the Wikipedia page I am hoping to bring together the information that I have come across for completeness, as the page is currently not up to date. Kimmy L-F (talk) 22:18, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete None of the sources, including those listed above, come near to the requirements for notability. The Sheffield Star article is about the best thing out there, but since it takes the form of an interview it veers to close to a primary source for my tastes (and seriously, local papers shouldn't really count towards notability - I've been in my local rag numerous times, and I'm sure as hell not notable.) Blogs and IMDb are no-go per WP:USERG, and listings, as either a photographer or TV cast member/guest don't fulfil the requirement in WP:GNG for "significant coverage". Yunshui 雲&zwj;水 23:10, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia is meant to be impartial. The comments by "hoary" are personal and sarcastic attacks indicating a lack of impartiality which totally contravenes Wiki's rules and ethics. If you read "hoary"'s user page, he has voluminous negative feedback from the Wiki community, being referred to as "the personification of everything that is wrong with wiki and the internet in general, one person who has a bee in his bonnet about something and won't listen to consenus and people with more experience and knowledge"

Sockpuppetry, posting under multiple accounts is illegal in Wikipedia and yet out of the blue, two users both with a specialist interest in Japanese history are citing this article for deletion. I am going to report this user to admin under suspicion of sockpuppetry under the usernames "hoary" and "Yunshui"

Jude Calvert-Toulmin has been referred to as an author in the Sheffield Star and in NowThen magazine, links cited by other users. She is listed as an actress on the IMDB, links cited by other users. She is included as a photographer in a list of contributors to a major photographic exhibition at the Mall Galleries: http://www.portelli-popicon.co.uk/index.php?inc=media - George583 — George583 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. The preceding unsigned comment was added at 12:33, 5 February 2012 (UTC).
 * On the first two of your three paragraphs, please see your talk page. -- Hoary (talk) 10:32, 6 February 2012 (UTC)


 * I take your point about "local rags" and if applied to the paper in my locality I'd also struggle to argue notability. Sheffield is a major city however and research demonstrates that The Star has a print readership of almost 140,000 and an online unique user audience of over 600,000: http://www2.sheffieldtoday.net/media-packs/packs/star/page1.html. The Sheffield Telegraph has a readership of over 40,000 and an online unique user audience of over 80,000: http://www2.sheffieldtoday.net/media-packs/packs/telegraph/page1.html. Both of these publications identify Jude Calvert-Toulmin as an author in articles about her work. Kimmy L-F (talk) 12:28, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete - non-notable author. Kimmy, nobody denies that JC-T is an author; but so what? There are millions of writers out there, and most of us are not notable. I've been published; I've appeared in my local rag, and others; and I've got an IMDb listing; but I'm certainly not notable. -- Orange Mike &#x007C;  Talk  18:13, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
 *  I absolutely agree with you Orange Mike . But not many of us can lay claim to having a top 100 best seller (in both paperback and Kindle) on Amazon within our chosen genre(Erotica) as Jude Calvert-Toulmin can with her latest title. Honestly, I think that's a fair indicator for notability and also refutes some of the discussions we've been having about the breadth of this author's notability (ie. references to "local rags" etc). Kimmy L-F (talk) 00:38, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
 * reply 1. Amazon rankings are notoriously ephemeral and manipulable; they mean nothing as far as notability is concerned. 2. Some books which are bestsellers in real life (NY Times list, etc.) are nonetheless by non-notable authors. 3. "local rag" was not my term. -- Orange Mike &#x007C;  Talk  01:33, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.