Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Judy Schwartz


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Kurykh (talk) 05:13, 28 February 2017 (UTC)

Judy Schwartz

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Was deprodded with a lengthy rationale on the article's talk page which amounts to nothing more than an WP:OSE argument. Article was declined at AfC, then was simply moved to mainspace. Notability is not inherited, and while this person is accomplished, meets neither WP:GNG or WP:NPOL.  Onel 5969  TT me 23:46, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

To correct the above, this article was declined at AfC on Jan 15th but resubmitted for review after discussion with editor who recommended adding archived citation. Due to backlog, was advised of option to recreate the updated draft as an article. Thus it is not accurate that the article was simply declined at AfC and then just moved to mainspace.


 * Delete a non-notable local lawyer and politician.John Pack Lambert (talk) 04:21, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

There is clearly an era bias occurring when it comes to the acceptance or deletion of articles related to Nassau County government officials. All 5 currently serving executives in Nassau County (the County Executive, Chief Deputy County Executive, District Attorney, Comptroller and County Clerk) each have independent articles in Wikipedia - however a predecessor who remains the highest woman to ever hold office in said government is being labeled non-notable enough for an article? That is not a flimsy WP:OSE argument.

“When used correctly, these [WP:OSE] comparisons are important as the encyclopedia should be consistent in the content it provides or excludes.”

Also if you are not familiar with Nassau County, it has a population larger than 10 individual U.S. states and is the wealthiest county per income in New York State. It is such a powerhouse of a government that NYS senators and assemblymen willingly resign their posts when given opportunity to serve in a Nassau County executive position. As example the current Chief Deputy County Executive, Rob Walker resigned his position as a New York State Assemblyman to take the current promotion. So it is totally inaccurate for John Pack Lambert to describe Judy Schwartz, Nassau County's former Chief Deputy County Executive as "a non-notable local politician," particularly when at the time she held the highest office of any female in Long Island politics. Meanwhile here is just a short list of existing articles published on other female Nassau County politicians of arguably less notability than Judy Schwartz:              Maureen O'Connell, Judith Jacobs, Diane Yatauro Btheory1978 (talk) 06:22, 20 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Comment - Many of the claims made in the article are unsubstantiated, for example, none of the references include the claim that Schwartz is the "highest ranking-female in local Long Island politics", or "the highest-ranking woman in the Nassau County Government", or her winning an oral award or, well almost every claim in the article is unsourced. The first sources is not available online, but the second and third sources have nothing to do with Schwartz. The third source does validate that Schwartz was Gulotta's deputy, but she is given a single trivial mention in the article. The last reference is about Brewington, but does not appear to mention Schwartz at all.  Onel 5969  TT me 01:33, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

Most claims are not unsourced. Example, I keep referring to Wikipedia's article on Nassau County, New York which establishes the hierarchy of government officials in Nassau County. The highest office is County Executive, a position that has only been served by men (as listed). The 2nd highest office is Chief Deputy County Executive which does establish Judy Schwartz as the highest ranking female official to have served in that government (as listed). Likewise, Long Island is comprised of only 2 counties: Nassau and Suffolk. Suffolk County, New York is also headed by a County Executive, and also no woman has ever served in that position. Suffolk has a slightly different political hierarchy than Nassau and so the head of their legislative branch is considered the 2nd highest serving official. Again no female has served in that role either. So technically, Judy Schwartz still remains the highest ranking woman to have ever served in local Long Island politics and that is information directly deducible from Wikipedia.

Also, a major obstacle I have encountered in trying to substantiate this article with more citations is that the Long Island Press does not have a functioning archive search engine: http://archive.longislandpress.com/

And currently the furthest back I can search on their homepage is 2013. To complicate the matter that publication was bought out to new ownership in 2003 so even trying to get hard copies of articles from before 2003 is not possible. Given that there are only 2 major Long Island newspapers, Long Island Press and Newsday, this is a serious disadvantage to any article on Long Island persons or politicians prior to 2013, let alone prior to 2003. Regarding Newsday, like most publications it was still only available in print in the 1990's and early 2000's. Therefore, I have to source their archives, even if it's not information that is free of cost to access online. Nonetheless it is a legitimate citation source according to Wikipedia so really shouldn't need to be called into question. Indeed, as I mentioned previously there is an evident era bias and I think sometimes editors may forget, or are too young to remember, that the internet only started to become a major source of news & information in the early 2000's (Wikipedia wasn't even around until 2001).

Let me offer a very clear example. There is an individual Wikipedia article on the current Comptroller of Nassau County, George Maragos. Among his predecessors spanning back to 1913, only 2 have individual Wikipedia articles and that is because they were elected US Congressmen so instantly fit WP: Politician. Thus, given an independent article was published on George Marago, it implies that he is the most notable comptroller to ever hold office in Nassau County as he did not need to be elected to higher office in order to be deemed notable enough for an individual Wikipedia article. Or is it more likely that since he was elected in 2009, every article or mention of his name and accomplishments were directly posted to the web, making citations widely and instantly accessible - a privilege not available to his predecessors. So in connecting back to the current debate, if someone is turning to Wikipedia with an interest in Long Island politics, is George Maragos actually more notable than the highest-ranking woman to have served in the respective government and nominal region of 3 million citizens (that's more populous than 30 individual U.S. states). So I don't believe this article should be deleted. But I do appreciate your scrutiny Onel5969 since that is how articles improve so I'll take heed of additions/ adjustments I can make according to your suggestions.

Btheory1978 (talk) 00:59, 22 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete non-notable, also no real WP:RS, only a passing comment in the New York Times. --David Tornheim (talk) 11:14, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

Is anybody reading what I wrote? As deducible from Wikipedia this subject is the highest woman to ever serve in local Long Island politics. I don't know how anybody can dispute... that is notable. I have explained the obstacle involved due to the fact that Long Island Press does not have an archive search engine and Newsday only has limited archive searches from before 2005. Given that those are the 2 major citation sources used to substantiate articles that HAVE been published on current Long Island persons and politicians, I am concerned about the era bias occurring wherein notable figures from Long Island prior to 2003-2005 are not getting due articles published. It is clear on the surface that this subject is more notable than most current politicians in Long Island who do have individual Wikipedia articles. In fact, most others do not have New York Times citations since that is a national publication... however, this subject does (even in passing it denotes prominence for any local politician to be referenced in NYT).

So can there please be a discussion here, because this is about more than this individual subject... it's about how Wikipedia handles the evident slant developing towards current subjects who don't actually demonstrate greater notability than their forbearers... they simply live at a time when it is easier to document. I don't think Wikipedia should be excluding subjects because they accomplished at a time when web technology wasn't developed or being utilized as a source of verification or bibliography. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Btheory1978 (talk • contribs)


 * Delete. I looked at the citations with live links. (1) "DAT-Schaub grows significantly in the U.S." - no mention of Judy Schwartz. (2) "Danish Crown subsidiary principal in casings co." - no mention of Judy Schwartz. (3) "Touro Law" - deep down, there's a mention of Judy Schwartz '93, among literally hundreds of other people, as having donated $100-$249 [sic] to her alma mater. (4) Power Play Over Nassau Coliseum "Mr. Gulotta, who has had frosty relations with the Islanders' current owners and SMG, sent his deputy, Judy Schwartz, to read a statement, which featured a vague promise of an agreement on an arena deal. She offered no details and was unable to answer any questions." (5) "A Civil Tenor for Civil Rights" - no mention of Judy Schwartz. (6) Planned Parenthood (after linking through) - one of the 30 people on the Board of Directors; one of the 23 who have no responsible position of any kind. Give - me - a - break! I cannot see anything which gets this article anywhere near WP:BIO. Narky Blert (talk) 00:12, 28 February 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.