Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Julia Mora


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Nuestra Belleza El Salvador. Sans the impressive sock/meatpuppetry clear policy-based consensus.A redirect is more beneficial than an outright deletion.Also, see WP:OSE. (non-admin closure) Winged Blades Godric  11:21, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

Julia Mora

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There's been a bit of back and forth on this one recently, but it's generally accepted that being crowned a local beauty queen doesn't make someone notable, and nor does competing in Miss Universe (unless you win). The only source - the rest were unreliable - only mentions her in passing. Note: image is also up for deletion at Commons. Black Kite (talk) 00:06, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment: It's really hard to Google search her, because there are about 5 different iterations of her name and so a search has to be done on all five. Also, unfortunately, El Salvador (due to its size, location, obscurity, and socio-political situation) and Salvadorans are simply not covered well on current Googleable resources. Softlavender (talk) 00:17, 5 December 2017 (UTC)alton
 * Very true, but I had a good attempt at it per WP:BEFORE and couldn't find anything useful about her. I speak decent Spanish as well and couldn't find anything in local news either. There was this  but that turns out to be copied off her own Facebook page, as does everything else (including the flickr stuff) which isn't copied off an old version of our own article (which was largely copied from her old social media). If someone else can dig something up, go for it. Black Kite (talk) 00:24, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Baby miss  fortune 00:56, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Beauty pageants-related deletion discussions. Baby miss  fortune 00:56, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of El Salvador-related deletion discussions. Baby miss  fortune 00:56, 5 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete or, if possible, redirect per the suggestions below. I declined a BLPPROD on this, but I didn't have any luck finding signficant sources myself. --joe deckertalk 01:59, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete as lacking sufficient sources for a BLP. Guy (Help!) 11:04, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Do not delete It has several sources that are constantly deleted by a "hater" that keeps vandalizing this page. If you read the editing history back to 2013 you will see that person adding the most irrelevant comments, lies and actually bullying Miss El Salvador Julia Mora. Julia has worked for Telemundo and important Spanish language magazines, radio shows and owns a production company that has a verified page on Facebook. If you were to delete her page you should then delete all the Former beauty queen pages here on Wikepidia that only have the pageant as their claim to fame. I think is wrong that a jealous person can go so far to even care if Julia has a Wikipedia page. P — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8801:2b01:1a0:2d69:8040:7907:5f79 (talk • contribs) 06:02, 6 December 2017 (UTC) — 2600:8801:2b01:1a0:2d69:8040:7907:5f79 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Do not delete. And please feel free to ask me in private to show you all the links in the internet that give Julia a celebrity status. Julia Mora (born Julia Haydee Mora Maza ) is a celebrity if we go by  Wikipedia's definition of what a celebrity is: Celebrity refers to the fame and public attention accorded by the mass media to individuals or groups or, occasionally, animals, but is usually applied to the persons or groups of people (celebrity couples, families, etc.) themselves who receive such a status of fame and attention. Celebrity status is often associated with wealth (commonly referred to as fame and fortune), while fame often provides opportunities to earn revenue. Successful careers in sports and entertainment are commonly associated with celebrity status,[1][2] while political leaders often become celebrities. People may also become celebrities due to media attention on their lifestyle, wealth, or controversial actions, or for their connection to a famous person. Mora is mostly known by her participation in the Miss Universe pageant but also as a TV personality from Telemundo Network, Televisa, TV y Novelas, Estrella TV, Radio stations, and she is also an entrepreneur, she owns a Cinematography business, and has a verified Facebook page, and I have all the links and pictures plus letters from Televisa saved to my computer in case you guys want to see them, because if I post on here for sure the person after Julia Mora will delete them, she was also linked romantically to Hollywood actor Erik Estrada (From CHIPs) and to Venezuelan soap opera stud, Fernando Carrillo. I have seen links on her page proving what I am saying, I have clicked on every single link and they are reliable sources. I even read an article on The National Enquirer this year about Julia Mora and Erik Estrada's wife, it can be verified with The National Enquirer. Somebody here deleted all the links I posted yesterday, he even deleted other links of former Miss El Salvador that have Wikipedia pages and haven't done half of what Julia Mora have done, some weren't even in the Miss Universe pageant. Why then those pages are not nominated for deletion? My answer is: there is a very jealous person behind this vandalism to Julia Mora's page. Below are links to Wikipedia pages that should be deleted immediately and Julia Mora should be left alone, unless some of you have an undisclosed motive and a personal thing against Julia witch to be is childish because this is a serious library. Thank you and please pay close attentions to the links below. Why would of those girls have a Wikipedia page and not Julia? It doesn't make sense to me unless someone here hates her. Please feel free to ask for my full name, phone number and email address in private. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larissa_Vega, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larissa_Vega, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alisson_Abarca, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ana_Yancy_Clavel, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ana_Yancy_Clavel, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irma_Dimas, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irma_Dimas, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idubina_Rivas, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idubina_Rivas Successful careers in sports and entertainment are commonly associated with celebrity status,[1][2] while political leaders often become celebrities. People may also become celebrities due to media attention on their lifestyle, wealth, or controversial actions, or for their connection to a famous person. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Prcelebrity (talk • contribs)  — Prcelebrity (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Redirect to Nuestra Belleza El Salvador. I've got two problems with this nomination.  The first is its dubious statement that Miss Universe contestants are generally not considered notable.  There is no such general understanding and, indeed, there are many, many fields of competition for which competing at the highest level of the activity creates a presumption of notability (via a presumption that reliable source do exist, even if they haven't been found yet).  And that's certainly the case here -- representing a nation that takes its pageantry very seriously, followed by work as a television host of a music show, means that the subject must have received plenty of newspaper and magazine coverage in El Salvador.  But that would have been in the mid- to late-'80s, which puts it beyond the reach of most on-line searching.  Plus that bit about Erik Estrada that landed her on the cover of the National Enquirer (as seen here).  But I'm not recommending a "keep", because right now there's almost nothing to say, except for that Estrada business.  And that brings me to the second problem -- whatever happened to WP:ATD?  R to list entry is a valid alternative to deletion that requires only that the subject be a plausible search term.  And she is.  NewYorkActuary (talk) 07:03, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I'd be fine with a redirect. Note that I didn't say that Miss Universe contestant are generally considered non-notable, but that people are generally not considered notable purely because they've been an entrant in Miss Universe - there's a big difference there.  And bear in mind this was effectively an unsourced BLP when I nominated it. Black Kite (talk) 23:35, 7 December 2017 (UTC)


 * do not delete My English no very good but it is injustice if you delete Julia Mora. I read many about Julia Mora, all people in my country know her. We know she is celebrity. Injustice deleting. No very fair. I think that the mister who said that many miss el salvador have page here in wikipedia no are famous nothing but Julia Haydee Mora yes she is very famous I see her in tv shows, she friends with many celebrities, she was girfriend with Oscar Dela Hoya the boxer and they worked together at FilmON TV last year on his campaign. Many here are not famous and have wikipedia, but Julia yes is famous. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Guanacos1 (talk • contribs) 07:16, 7 December 2017 (UTC)  — Guanacos1 (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.


 * comment Do not discriminate my comment. Me English no good but have links: thank you
 * Julia Mora actress in The Medium http://www.imdb.com/name/nm5446499/?ref_=nv_sr_3 http://www.imdb.com/name/nm7052302/
 * Julia Mora also producer http://www.imdb.com/name/nm7052302/
 * Julia Mora Writer too http://journalisted.com/julia-mora
 * Jullia Mora girlfriend if famous man http://www.whosdatedwho.com/dating/julia-mora Mora girlfriend of famous man
 * Julia Mora a celebrity https://www.celebrities-galore.com/celebrities/julia-mora/home/
 * https://staffmeup.com/profile/id/60413 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Guanacos1 (talk • contribs) 07:34, 7 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Redirect per 's convincing rationale. -- Begoon 08:08, 7 December 2017 (UTC)


 * strong KEEP - biases are showing here (of culture, language, nationality, etc.); we would not be having this discussion abt a comparable 'miss america' (usa) title-holder. these discussions are always kind of stupid anyway. i mean, what; are we afraid that wikipedia is going to run out of space!? :p  wikipedia succeeds because we are "the encyclopedia of everything"; we are the "go to" when ppl want to bloody LOOK SOMETHING UP.


 * the sources arguement, i think can be addressed; there appears to be sufficient material about her out there, in the venues where one would expect such coverage to be.


 * Lx 121 (talk) 10:07, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Well done for finding sufficient sources about her - it was more than I could do! - could you add them to the article please (as of course otherwise your comment will bear no weight)? Thanks - Black Kite (talk) 10:18, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
 * i refer you to the above-posted examples, to spanish-language news & celebrity coverage IN El Salvador, to the inks already present on the article, & to google; try searching "julia mora el salvador", with google set to prefer SPANISH LANGUAGE results, & i think you will find a sufficiency of material to establish the factuality of her existence, her winning the title, & therest of what is claimed in the wp article.


 * also worth pointing out that the Miss El Salvador is a national "finals", hardy a "local" beauty contest; respectfully, see my comment re: cultural biases


 * best- Lx 121 (talk) 11:40, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
 * So in other words, you didn't actually bother finding any? That's a shame.  The above-posted examples bar one are not reliable sources, which is why they were removed in the first place. Black Kite (talk) 18:43, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
 * no, "in other words" i do not agree with your "cherrypicking" sources to rationalise a deletion. WHERE EXACTLY do you expect to find coverage of el salvadorean beauty-pagent/actress/celebs?  in the cia factbook perhaps, or maybe 'the economist'?  & on what criteria are you "excluding" these?  do you disoute the factuality of her existence? her name? her beauty pagent title? AND if you had "botherd" to try the searches i suggesed, you'd have found some ADDITIONAL MATERIAL, including multiple video materials @ youtube; tv interviews, etc.  w.a.d.r. Lx 121 (talk) 18:23, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I did. As I said above, I found practically nothing (and I speak decent Spanish).  Do you believe that El Salvador is somehow isolated from the Internet? That people from El Salvador have never appeared in reliable sources?  It's not the Moon, you know. Please feel free to add this "ADDITIONAL MATERIAL" to the article, instead of complaining that other people do the work for you.   Black Kite (talk) 18:35, 8 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Redirect to Nuestra Belleza El Salvador. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Daquan7474 (talk • contribs) 21:40, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

Just to clarify, I never nominated this page for deletion,i simply said the phantom editor/sock puppet that keeps editing with fake birthdates,etc needs to be blocked. I was suggesting the page be locked,not deleted.

It would be great if Miss El Salvador could publish a video in Spanish with English sub titles detailing all her romantic realationships,marriages and any children.

user prcelebrity keeps leaving biased comments on my talk page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Daquan7474 (talk • contribs) 01:56, 8 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Do not delete And please to the person deleting this important links, do not be so obvious. Someone here has a good point. If Julia Mora who meets Wikipedia criteria as a celebrity is being nominated for deletion, then all these pages below should be deleted immediately if we are going according to Wikipedia's policies and criteria. Please take a moment to check all the links below and you will know what I am talking about. I will send a message to Julia Mora on her Facebook and I will invite her to come to this discussion or make the video suggested.


 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larissa_Vega
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alisson_Abarca
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ana_Yancy_Clavel
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irma_Dimas
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idubina_Rivas

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8801:2B01:1A0:9163:1D79:6CEF:133D (talk) 02:40, 8 December 2017 (UTC) — 2600:8801:2B01:1A0:9163:1D79:6CEF:133D (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.


 * comment I agree that the above articles should be redirected to Nuestra Belleza El Salvador.

If the video does become available, post the link. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Daquan7474 (talk • contribs) 03:21, 8 December 2017 (UTC)


 * I have unbolded your !vote in that comment -- you are only allowed one bolded !vote in any AfD. Softlavender (talk) 00:06, 9 December 2017 (UTC)


 * comment - same problem then: "why are minor celebrities of the USA more notable when it come to inclusion in wikipedia?" Lx 121 (talk) 18:23, 8 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Redirect to Nuestra Belleza El Salvador, per NewYorkActuary, and full protect the Redirect. We've got a massive sock/meat farm constantly trying to pump up or recreate the entry (as evidenced even by the participation in this AfD), so we need protection against that. Softlavender (talk) 21:58, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete there is a lack of the multiple in-depth sourcing needed to pass the general notability guidelines.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:28, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
 * comment - given that she was crowned the winner of a national pageant warrants for something in terms of notability. I think it is hard for other editors including me to find sources online as the year 1985 is quite a while back before the internet became ubiquitous. TalkMe (talk) 09:10, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Nuestra Belleza El Salvador, as per NewYorkActuary.Richie Campbell (talk) 15:36, 10 December 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.