Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Julien Mayfair


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus.  MBisanz  talk 02:28, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Julien Mayfair

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

This is an article on a fictional character from a non-notable book without an article book. The article mentions the subject solely with plot summary, and the article contains neither real-world information nor any assertion of notability. Scapler (talk) 02:12, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment - the original author gave the wrong title for this series of books. It is the Mayfair Witches trilogy by Anne Rice, which includes The Witching Hour (novel), Lasher and Taltos (novel). FreplySpang 02:40, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment - Thank you for the clarification. Strike that part of the comment then. Still, this article is nothing but plot without real-world connection or assertion of notability for the character. According to WP:WWIN: Wikipedia is not a plot summary: "Wikipedia treats fiction in an encyclopedic manner, discussing the reception, impact, and significance of notable works". Also, from WP:Notability (fiction): "it is not normally advisable to have a separate article on every fictional character, episode, or scene that appears in a work of fiction, such that the coverage contains only trivial details or information about the plot". Scapler (talk) 03:25, 27 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment WP:Notability (fiction) is a proposed guideline, not an adopted one, and should not be considered in AfDs at all until it passes. Vote Neutral & Merge to book series article, otherwise tag for wikify and cleanup. MLauba (talk) 21:57, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment - That's why I also included a quote from Manual of Style (writing about fiction) below which says about the same thing. Cheers! Scapler (talk) 02:32, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment - This is not a plot summary of any of the books mentioned, merely the back story of one of the characters in the books. The history is pieced together by certain chapters in each book, one chapter in the frst book and three in the second. This is not an outline of the plot of any novel. However, I will be happy to mention how/why and through what manner they are told in the books, as well as the significance of Julien's story to the plot of the books. —Preceding unsigned comment added by WendyNotsid (talk • contribs) 07:23, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep. Major character from two highly notable book series (the character also features in Blackwood Farm and Blood Canticle, which are Vampire Chronicles books). JulesH (talk) 08:55, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete- I can't find any sources apart from, presumably, the books themselves which makes it highly unlikely that coverage of this character can ever be more than the excessive plot summary that it is now. Reyk  YO!  09:34, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep Major character in highly notable fiction. This is sufficient for an article. As Rice is frequently reviewid, there will be 3rd party sources and no one should say otherwise who hasnt made a proper try. Why should there be room for expansion-- as we get the sources they will discuss motives, and relationships with other characters, and all the sort of things that people write about when the write about fiction.  There are interviews with the author also, where she presumably talks about these things. Agreed the article is poorly written at present because it does do all this, but you can assume it can't be done. With any major author, you can generally assume that it can be be done.  At least it isn't copyvio. The grammar is too poor. Plenty of room for improvement here. Plenty of time do do it,m if we could accept that major characters in major fiction are worth having, and work on the articles. DGG (talk) 10:03, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Redirect Prominent character? He's only mentioned a couple of times in The Mayfair Witches. There's no reason to keep a badly written article lying around when we can redirect. The history will still be around for improvement. - Mgm|(talk) 10:06, 27 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment - It does not matter how notable she is within the work of fiction, rather it matters what real-world content such as creation, reception, influence, etc. from reliable third-party sources the article contains. WP:WAF: "When an article is created, the subject's real-world notability should be established according to the general notability guideline by including independent reliable secondary sources". I do not see any of these. Cheers! Scapler (talk) 12:24, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete as wholly unsourced and consisting solely of plot. —   pd_THOR  undefined | 07:34, 1 March 2009 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.