Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Juliet Ortega


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   merge to Who the Hell is Juliette?. There seems to be a general agreement that the individual fails WP:BLP1E; however, the article's content is very relevant to the film, so merging seems a reasonable solution. There is admittedly no strong consensus for merging, but I feel comfortable exercising my discretion here. That said, editorial decisions made at AfD are non-binding, and ideally discussion should continue on the article's talk page. – Juliancolton  &#124; Talk 15:10, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Juliet Ortega

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Recreation of previously deleted article. The article is totally unreferenced and has very serious WP:BLP issues. Martin 4 5 1  (talk) 13:30, 27 July 2009 (UTC)  Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, King of &hearts;   &diams;   &clubs;  &spades; 00:15, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Cuba-related deletion discussions.  —Martin 4 5 1  (talk) 13:39, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions.  —Martin 4 5 1  (talk) 13:39, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment This article has previously been discussed on the WP:BLP noticeboard. Martin 4 5 1  (talk) 13:53, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment It is also questionable about whether this article passes WP:BLP1E, as she is only known for a documentry filmed 12 years ago when she may have still been a child. Martin 4 5 1  (talk) 13:53, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep Obviously from my part since Im the article's author, and so I'm not voting for it to be deleted!! :). The article is unsourced, but she was famous then, and also I've seen her name mentioned in some webpages here and there. It's sort of like Prinair, for example, in that while NOT THAT NOTABLE, it's still notable. Kinda like that. "Antonio Notable B.I.G. Martin" (talk) 08:22, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep - True, the article lacked some references (I did some minor "inline" work) and needs a major overhaul in format and such, but I believe that if a person is notable enough to have a film based on her life, plus a featured New York Times article, then the person merits an article here. I may be wrong, but after searching in google, I noticed the subject to be mentioned in various websites. Tony the Marine (talk) 07:14, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.


 *  Delete  There are insufficient sources to establish notability. I have done several searches for sources and have only been able to find passing mentions. The film that User:Marine 69-71 mentioned is notable, but that has no bearing on Juliet Ortega's notability because notability is not inherited. Furthermore, the NYT article mentioned by Marine 69-71 is not an article about Ortega; instead, it is a general listing of this movie. Cunard (talk) 04:40, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * See below. Cunard (talk) 21:53, 6 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete As per WP:BLP1E KevinOKeeffe (talk) 08:45, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom, WP:BLP1E fail. JBsupreme (talk) 09:13, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete: Plainly a WP:BLP1E issue. The film may have been notable (although, as it happens, no one so far's thought it notable enough for its own article), but Ortega had no notability before the film, has none separately from it and apparently has vanished back into obscurity.  The only Google news hit to date is 12 years old, in Spanish and is about the film.  I find no reliable sources about Ortega (as opposed to about the movie), and, come to that, none about the movie since 1998; plainly whatever buzz attached to it died overnight.  The article also has some errors - for one, consistently misspelling Carlos Marcovich's name as "Malkovich" - although that should have no direct bearing on retention.    RGTraynor  13:17, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete WP:BLP1E fail. Pmlineditor    Talk  16:06, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep the Film itself is not an event but an independent secondary source about Ortega. The Film deals with Ortega herself and thus can not be seen as source qualifying for WP:BLP1E. Therfore Ortega fully satisfies the basic criterion of WP:BIO Wefa (talk) 22:20, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * If the film is a secondary source about Ortega, then what makes her notable outside of the film? If the film is not an event, but a source on her life, then she is even less notable than if the film were an event. Martin 4 5 1  (talk) 22:58, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * that particular issue makes her notable. Your conclusion is not supported by WP guidelines. The core idea of WP:BIO is that if someone writes about you, you are notable. WP:BLP1E is a well defined exception - if someone writes about you only because you were in a plane crash, you are not independently notable. But I have pointed out why she doesn't meet that exception.Wefa (talk) 23:09, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * If (as I think you are saying) the film itself makes her notable, then the film is a primary source about her. There are very few secondary sources about Ortega to back up her notability, or to provide suitable material for the article. Just having a film made about you does not itself make you notable. Martin 4 5 1  (talk) 00:30, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmmm. If the film is a primary source, what would be stuff published by her?. And anyway, wanna bet if Michael Moore made a film about you, you'd be notable? I don't really get this. George Lucas makes a film about invented people, and Wikpedia is full of them. This guy makes a well received film about two real persons, and we debate notability. Look at Wikipedia's definition of primary sources: "Primary sources are sources very close to an event. For example, an account of a traffic accident written by a witness is a primary source of information about the accident." The "event" here is Ortega or her life. Marcovich is not involved in or close to that - he is clearly a secondary source accoding to WP:PSTS. Wefa (talk) 00:52, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Create and Merge - Why can't we create an article on the film and merge whatever can be verified about her into that article? Morbidthoughts (talk) 16:47, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Since the film is the only thing that makes this person notable, I would Merge per Morbidthoughts. I beleive that WP:BLP1E allows such a merger. Bearian (talk) 19:34, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Selective merge to Who the Hell is Juliette?, which I have created. Cunard (talk) 21:53, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Merge to Who the Hell is Juliette?, per Morbidthoughts, Cunard, and others. Cnilep (talk) 19:47, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.