Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Junior Bake Off (series 7)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge‎__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__ to Junior Bake Off. Liz Read! Talk! 07:23, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Junior Bake Off (series 7)

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

I raised my issue about seasons of Junior Bake Off at Talk:The Great British Bake Off, but I've yet to see replies there. Right now, I'm nominating this season as a test nomination before nominating other seasons.

Apparently, this season article consists of recapping people's bakes and ratings, but that's not the main reason to nominate. (Other season articles of reality TV series recap what happened in those seasons.) Other than TV viewerships/ratings, either I couldn't find other reliable sources verifying this season's notability, or very few or no reliable sources cover this season significantly.

Furthermore, list of winners and runners-up is already summarized in Junior Bake Off, and the whole season article may not comply with WP:NOTEVERYTHING. Should be redirected to the parent article Junior Bake Off. George Ho (talk) 08:04, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Food and drink, Television,  and Events. George Ho (talk) 08:04, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 08:17, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.  The review notes: "It’s the semi final of this brilliantly fun and colourful series that is far superior even to the original hit show. The success is largely down to host Harry Hill, who knows how to talk to kids like adults, while also making ridiculous jokes and silly asides to camera (just for the grown ups to enjoy). Baking hotshot Liam Charles and pastry chef Rav Gill are excellent judges, always managing to find a positive even when presented with the most disastrous of bakes – well, you wouldn’t want the kids crying."  The article notes: "DON'T write off C4's Junior Bake Off as an inferior toddler version. It's actually way better than the real thing. ... Then there's Harry Hill, who is utterly brilliant as he cracks mad jokes, making adult asides to camera that go over the kids' heads. Judges Liam Charles and Rav Gill are constructive without being patronising and the contestants are all talented and cute. Plus it's funny, with way more smiles than the adult version."  The article notes: "Junior Bake Off is back next week with a brand new series. Hosted by comedian Harry Hill, the new season will see 16 young bakers put their culinary skills to the test as they try to impress judges Liam Charles and Ravneet Gill over the course of two heats. ... Read on for everything you need to know about Junior Bake Off 2022."  The article notes: "Harry Hill hosts this new series of the junior version of the baking competition with Ravneet Gill and also Paul Hollywood this week standing in for Liam Charles, who was off ill. ... The first technical challenge? Mini-piggy rolls. ... The judges have to then try the cakes (horror) and offer a few comments like: "The don't really look like pigs". ... Paul Hollywood walks round gently trying to suggest things that might help the bakers and it's very nice to see his softer side although he still retains the cheeky blue-eyed twinkle."  The article notes: "Aisya Syahrul's use of her Malaysian heritage in culinary skills wowed judges in Britain's Junior Bake Off (JBO) recently that saw her and three other participants sailing through to the next round of heat that will hopefully take them to the finals on Jan 28, where one of them will be crowned Junior Bake Off champion. ... Aisya, 12, had consistently won over judges Liam Charles, British baker and TV presenter, and Ravneet Gill, British pastry chef and author, particularly with her pastries. In episode nine, the youngster, who says she wants to follow her father's footsteps in medicine, created what the judges described as "light and crumbly pastry" peanut butter tarts that "melts in the mouth. During the Pop Tart challenge, she got first place in the technical challenge."</li> <li> The article notes: "However, some viewers tuning in to watch the show wanted Mia to be saved over Gabriel, despite both of them putting in a great effort with their performance. It was dessert week this week and the young contestants were tasked with trying to create a rainbow baked Alaska, with Gabriel admitting he had never heard of the dessert - but still insisted he'd give it his best shot."</li> <li> The article notes: "Hosted by Harry Hill, the Bake Off celebrity Liam Charles and superstar pastry chef Ravneet Gill will have the tough job of determining the winner. The youngsters will have to make ice-cream sandwiches and dessert jars concurrently, ready to share with family and friends at a party. In their most important bake of the series, the finalists' last chance to impress comes in the form of the ultimate Showstopper - a finale fun fair cake."</li> <li> The article notes: "Channel 4's Junior Bake Off has come under fire after the judges set a rather "tough" technical challenge. Chaos ensued after the remaining young bakers were asked to make panda-shaped steamed buns filled with ginger and garlic mushrooms accompanied by a soy dipping sauce for their Bread Day technical challenge."</li> <li> The article notes: "A talented young baker from Yorkshire has made it all the way to finals week in this years exciting edition of Junior Bake Off. ... In the first of this week's finals tonight, Fraser is set to take on chocolate, a notoriously difficult ingredient to work with as the young bakers are tasked with creating both a miso and chocolate sweet-and-salty bake alongside a selection of mini chocolate mousse mirror glazed cakes."</li> <li> The article notes: "All the challenges are cakebased today, starting with a tricky technical task, making mini piggy rolls (mini rolls with a strawberry filling, decorated to look like hogs). It's a tough one to get right, as the bakers struggle to nail the piggy resemblance while also ensuring the sponge is light and the filling is tangy. And they're trying not to be distracted by Harry's jokes, too."</li></ol>There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow series 7 of Junior Bake Off to pass Notability, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". Cunard (talk) 01:11, 7 May 2023 (UTC) </li></ul> Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗  plicit  13:10, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Unsure whether to use Daily Mirror per WP:RSP, but the quote from the source (IMO contextually) praises hosting and judging performances, not the whole seventh series. Another Daily Mirror article as a whole is quoting Twitter posts that alleged production interference or "fixing".
 * Couldn't find RSN discussions about The Sunday People, a tabloid, but it does the same thing that the Daily Mirror article does. I don't think both of them contextually discusses the whole seventh series itself, like young/juvenile contestants themselves.
 * The quote from Radio Times, more reliable to me than the former two, was just previewing or advertising (the premiere of) the seventh series. One from Nottingham Post (tabloid), mainly about Paul Hollywood substituting for Liam Charles, can be easily summarised in the parent series article Junior Bake Off and (IMHO) doesn't improve the 7th series's notability much.
 * The quote from New Straits Times about one Malaysian juvenile baker Aisya Syahrul, one of runners-up, seems to be more about her than the whole 7th series itself. Unsure whether that's sufficient proof of the 7th series's notability as much as proof of her supposed notability, but (contextually) that makes her known only for her Junior Bake Off appearance, which WP:BLP1E is against.
 * A Surrey Advertiser article seems promising... at first, but then I figured it's just previewing or advertising a then-upcoming episode. So is a Birmingham Mail (tabloid) article, but it's mostly citing Twitter posts by viewers.
 * A Huddersfield Daily Examiner (tabloid) article about one of runners-up seems promising, but it's more about him than the whole series itself. Yet his notability only for his Junior Bake Off appearance would be against WP:BLP1E.
 * Quote from an Evening Chronicle (tabloid) article seems to be previewing one of then-upcoming episodes.
 * Honestly, I don't know how you think such tabloid articles are reliable proof of the seventh series's notability. Furthermore, news or tabloid articles about individual juvenile bakers.... Anyways, I'm unsure how those sources will change my stance about this (seventh) series. George Ho (talk) 02:33, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I consider the Daily Mirror and The People to be sufficiently reliable for television reviews as one editor at Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 296 said about the Daily Mirror. The sources cover the series by reviewing the performances of the host and judges. The Radio Times is a strong source that discusses the whole series (the host, the judges, and the contestants). These sources are sufficient for the series to pass Notability. I provided the sources that discuss episodes and the individual contestants to show that the article can be significantly expanded to discuss each episode and some of the contestants' performances in the series. There is more than enough content in the sources to justify a standalone article about the series. Cunard (talk) 05:08, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep Sources analyzed above seem fine. Daily Mirror is iffy, but with all the others, it helps notability. They aren't spreading rumours about one star on the series, they're talking about the show. It's not going to be on the same level/language as the BBC, but it's a critical review. Oaktree b (talk) 14:54, 10 May 2023 (UTC)


 * And a BBC source for one of the judges, for good measure . Oaktree b (talk) 14:56, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
 * The info provided by BBC is already explained in the Junior Bake Off article, but... ah, well. George Ho (talk) 16:14, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Well, you've deflated my souffle. Oaktree b (talk) 19:09, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge into Junior Bake Off as a premature, unjustified WP:SPINOFF. The little writeup Junior Bake Off (series 7) has to offer is badly needed at the target. Applies to all annual editions, except for series 2 and 8 that should be redirected. gidonb (talk) 11:20, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Pardon me, but which info do you think is worth merging into Junior Bake Off? From what I can see, the elimination list and results charts are tremendous. Of course, we can do without names of bakes (not bakers) and technical challenge rankings. Probably just brief summarized chart of heats and finals would do? George Ho (talk) 11:45, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I explained it above. The merge refers to the text. Junior Bake Off is short. Junior Bake Off (series 7) is flimsy. There needs to be justification for a WP:SPINOFF or WP:SPINOUT. Nonesuch here! gidonb (talk) 11:48, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
 * In other words, is what you would prefer over . Right? Honestly, the sections about their respective series/seasons in the older revision seemed too large (especially to edit) and harder to condense. But maybe I'm looking at things incorrectly. George Ho (talk) 12:05, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Nope. Just replace the text in the target with what exists in the source. Then redirect. That's all. gidonb (talk) 04:39, 15 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Merge brief properly sourced paragraph into Junior Bake Off. Fails GNG and BIO. The above source eval shows there is not SIGCOV addressing the subject directly and indepth. Sources brief and from promos in routine entertainment news, nothing with SIGCOV. This is an unneeded spinoff fork.  // Timothy :: talk  05:12, 18 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Comment: WP:SPINOFF says, "There are two situations where spinoff articles frequently become necessary". The first situation: "Articles where the expanding volume of an individual section creates an undue weight problem". Junior Bake Off (series 7) already is a very large article that contains tables about the series (the bakers, the results, and a summary of each episode). It would be undue weight to merge all the material to the parent article so this is a valid spinoff. The sources I've listed here contain critical commentary about series 7 and discuss the bakers, their performances throughout series 7, and summaries of each episodes. The article can be substantially expanded with these sources. Cunard (talk) 06:52, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Nom's comment - I've been thinking: I can't help wonder whether WP:NEVENT applies to seasons/series of reality TV shows, like this one. After all, it's nonfiction. George Ho (talk) 17:40, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Randykitty (talk) 09:50, 20 May 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Lflin16 - Member of Recent Changes Patrol (talk) 21:15, 20 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep - Series 7 of the Junior Bakeoff more than meets wikipedias notability guidelines, and is a high quality article that has no reason to be deleted.


 * Comment. The Junior Bake Off article had per season chapters of about 4 lousy sentences per season. Junior Bake Off is a short article. Since the article accumulated a lot of "deadweight" in the form of fancruft tables, someone seriously erred and spun off the seasons anyway, leaving us with about 4 sentences in the spun-off articles and only about 2 in the parent, probably to give more space for the deadweight fancruft, turning the parent and all its children into POOR quality articles. Nominator nevertheless took this into the rabbit hole of notability, took pride in not looking into the problem as a whole, and others followed them right into the notability hole. This article and its siblings, however, call for an information governance solution and a bit more than one-dimensional thinking. gidonb (talk) 20:34, 21 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Comment I'm ok with a !merge, the info will still be useful in Wiki. Oaktree b (talk) 19:13, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
 * You okay with the merger proposal as well? George Ho (talk) 19:33, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment Yep! I think a merge is a good solution, at least the articles info will be helpful, and not deleted.Lflin16 - Member of Recent Changes Patrol (talk) 21:05, 23 May 2023 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.