Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Justin Hughes (author)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Given that the one "keep" is qualified as weak, and that E.M.Gregory, who has looked at a lot of possible sources, appears unconvinced. Besides, the text reads entirely promotional and would need a full rewrite in any case.  Sandstein  20:31, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

Justin Hughes (author)

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Subject fails WP:GNG and WP:BIO. Unable to find significant coverage in reliable sources that talk about him. He is the author of 1 book which has limited coverage, but not in sources that would be considered reliable. When searching, you will find other books from Justin Hughes but these are from another subject. CNMall41 (talk) 18:49, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 11:07, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 11:07, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 11:07, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * I'm finding him pretty easy to source; a name like Hughes requires keywords. Searched proquest news archive using "Justin Hughes" + "Red Arrows" and found multiple articles about his flying career, some interview, describe him:  [[DAREDEVIL DUO: Hodgson, Neil. Liverpool Echo [Liverpool (UK)] 06 Sep 2001: 3.  but there are also media interviews with him as a business consultant: Joanne Frearson talks to three experts on risk in different fields about how their experiences translate to managing difficult business scenarios FACTORY THE City A.M [London] 25 Mar 2015: 25. ; UK Firm Uses RAF Fighter Pilots to Teach 'Top Gun' Management Skills, Withington, Thomas. Knight Ridder Tribune Business News [Washington] 18 Apr 2004: 1.  .  Some of the articles contain details about his life form which the facts in the article can be sourced (added 2 such, ones that I found on my first, simple google.  Have not added all that I found.  Neither have I searched Proquest or other archives with the other plausible keywords.  So, while I do loathe these [[WP:RPROMO]] bios, and this one has all the hallmarks of a self-promoting business consultant, and the article needs to be properly sourced and edited, it does look as though there are enough reliable, secondary sources out there for a keep.E.M.Gregory (talk) 13:37, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 02:41, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Weak keep: This smacks of a paid editor puff piece and I'd love an excuse to !vote delete, but EMGregory makes a good case.   Montanabw (talk)  22:29, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment I'm unable to consider the content E.M.Gregory links to because it all leads to a logon to some facility I don't have an account with. I will say that the sources in the article are either non-independent or written by the subject or interviews of the subject.  None of that contributes to notability beyond the minor author contributions to the interview articles. I guess I'll sit this one out. Gab4gab (talk) 22:48, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I apologize for that. Proquest newspapers is a search engine that I find to be powerful and user-friendly, although no newspaper search engine is perfect.  Google news searches tend to fail to uncover material from the last millennium, even when date-limited. I regard this as unfair to individuals for whom significant parts of their career took place a millennia ago, in the 1990s.  or earlier.  I don't have a good solution, unless Proquest is one of the search engines that offers courtesy subscriptions to Wikipedia editors.  You might want to inquire.E.M.Gregory (talk) 15:59, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Oops - I now see that I didn't even use Proquest on this one. I am wired into a number of powerful search engines, makes it hard to know how I got to those articles.  That said, it's time to get back to work for the people who pay to keep me wired into...    am I the only editor who sometimes comes here to procrastinate?E.M.Gregory (talk) 16:05, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 03:27, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I saw where you said you didn't use Proquest while at the same time the three URLs you provided all are for search.proquest.com. I'd be happy to look at the items if you would post a link to the sources rather than a link to the search facility. Gab4gab (talk) 16:15, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I may revisit my search, for now, however, here are the 3 I linked to above.  source #1 the first of those sources is a story about the Red Arrows putting on a show over Liverpool: "Another participant at the air show will be Justin Hughes, who will get a bird's-eye view of his home town.  The 34-year-old flight lieutenant, from Southport, is a member of the RAF Red Arrows aerial acrobatics team, which is one of the biggest attractions at the show." he then goes on to say the polite, complimentary things about Liverpool, flying, and some wing-walkers who will perform on his wing  that you would expect of an officer and a gentleman.  It is one of several I recall finding about his career as a Red Arrow pilot.  They do get interviewed.  Source # 2 starts wit a riff on how great pilots are, but is substantive coverage of his post-pilot career, here are the parts about him: " T HE split-second decisions fighter pilots have to take in the cockpit can engender a life-or-death situation. It is a demanding environment with high standards, and the RAF spends many years teaching its officers skills to be able to react appropriately to high pressure situations. But these are skills which are not only useful for fighter pilots, but can be adopted by the corporate world to help make better risk and safety decisions.  This is a subject which is close to the heart of Justin Hughes, managing director and founder of Mission Excellence and a former RAF fighter and Red Arrows pilot. Now wearing a corporate suit rather than a pilot uniform, he uses what he learned from a military environment to help companies manage risk and safety.  "Safety in the world we come from is not a separate department or something that is outsourced," he says. "It is owned by the operators and is the day job. People who are doing operations own risk, and not in a token way. When you really genuinely own the risk you do not really think about it as a separate item." Unfortunately, Hughes explains, most companies only get interested in risk management as soon as something bad happens, such as people dying in an aircraft accident, a financial crash or an oil disaster. He believes problems come for companies when they take a systematic view of minimising risk.  He says: "You need to not just give people a system and a process, but actually equip them with the tools and the decisionmaking skills to make informed, sensible, balanced judgments in the heat of the moment, faced with some difficult and ambiguous situations that you have not seen before."  Hughes has been doing a lot of work in the oil and gas industry, and says that recent disasters, such as the Macondo Deep Water Horizon oil spill off the Gulf of Mexico in 2010, have been a tipping point for the sector to review their risk and safety practices.  "The oil and gas industry has recognised to some extent that they will never systemise the risk out of the challenges they face," he says. "I am not saying it is not important, but in addition to that they have also started to concentrate quite heavily on human and organisation factors.  "In most organisations, you only get taught technical stuff, but you might get some behavioural stuff added on in bits and pieces later on in your career. One way to mitigate risk is to train people in behavioural and cultural issues at an early stage in your career. "You get what you train for to some extent. If you only train people in technical risk why would they be any good at decision making? Why would they be any good at common sense?" In the military, before they teach you functional skills of a fighter pilot, Hughes explains, you have to pass a six-month course - effectively a course in brand values, team and organisational behaviour, and leadership. Only after passing that behavioural course will the RAF teach candidates the functional skills. "People often call this stuff the soft skills," says Hughes. "It is not that soft - all pilots do it and it is an intrinsic part of the organisation and a massive driver of safe performance." Where we come from, safety is not a separate department. (end) Source # 3 is similar: WHAT do flying fighter jets, precision-bombing and executive life have in common? More than you might think.  Last week, Earl's Court Exhibition Centre in London opened its doors to the London Air Show, with exhibitors from all over the world showcasing aviation wizardry....   Justin Hughes, managing director of Mission Excellence and a former RAF Tornado and Red Arrows pilot, explains the relevance: "Fighter pilots have to deliver results under pressure to a plan. They are very good at these skills because they have to be."...  Mission Excellence's Hughes says that debriefing is relatively rare in the business world. He is also keen to emphasise that the experience is about developing skills: "Our focus is on the delivery of some transferable skills which are relevant to just about all businesses."  The idea is to show delegates that military decision-making has parallels with their roles in the business world.  The exercise takes its cue from similar ones performed by the military, notably the Red Flag exercises that are held annually in Nevada in the United States.  During these exercises, US allies from all over the world send their pilots to practice air strikes and air-to-air warfare in a hypothetical confrontation between "red" and "blue" forces. The objective is to hone the skills of aircrews and encourage the exchange of ideas.  The Top Gun experience is good fun, but it doesn't come cheap, at UKpound 2,500 (E3,775, $4,600) per person for two days."   I guess I was hoping that other editors would also be able to search old papers, or that someone would let the hot air out of this article, leaving it briefer and reliably sourced.E.M.Gregory (talk) 17:41, 10 August 2016 (UTC)


 * revisiting I just ran a Proquest search on "The Business of Excellence" + Hughes .  nada.  no hits at all.  So, if this is kept, it needs to be moved from (author) to something else, like maybe  "businessman".  Next I ran a search on "Justin Hughes" + "Mission Excellence"  3 hits, one a Knight Ridder story echoed in a Sunday paper.  (Note that these searches NEVER find everything that is out there)  the 2 articles I cut and pasted above, plus  (Red Arrows pilots set to make Dubai businesses into high flyers Middle East Company News [Dubai] 01 Feb 2007) it's describes and quotes him ad considerable more length than the 2 I quoted form above, but it is focused exclusively on him and his company and but it is very similar to them in tone and in quoting him explaining how fighter pilot know how can really drive  a business.  As search on "Mission Excellence" bought up so many "Missions" that I clicked away.  A search on "Justin Hughes" established that there are more of them than you might think, I clicked away.  next I tried "Justin Hughes" + pilot  and discovered that in 2006 a man with this name died when two fighter jets crashed over Pennsylvania. What were the odds.  The articles I had already found were on the first page of this last search,  along with a number of articles about him as a Red Arrow pilot, articles about him as a Red Arrow alum objecting to the termination of the Red Arrows (budgetary), articles about an American financier named Justin Hughes, (who analyzes pilot programs,) and also more articles in which he is profiled selling his business.   (It's not just Tesco at [...]: Notebook, Odone, Cristina. The Daily Telegraph [London (UK)] 17 Sep 2012 ) in which our hero pitches his business seminars to politicians who need the skills he learned as a fighter jet pilot.....  .  At this point I gave up.  Make of it what you will.  .E.M.Gregory (talk) 22:17, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete -- any (however marginal) notability the subject has is associated with the topic Red Arrows. Otherwise, he is a non notable consultant and self-proclaimed author. Articles that were included by E.M.Gregory are either puff pieces or interviews; typical PR. Indeed, COI editing is probable. I don't see anything substantial for stand-alone notability. K.e.coffman (talk) 18:10, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment, thanks for added details on sources. The interview material is interesting but again adds little support to notability.  I'm still uncomfortable voting without reading the sources myself. Gab4gab (talk) 11:57, 17 August 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.