Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Justin Tellus


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. King of &hearts;   &diams;   &clubs;  &spades; 04:14, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

Justin Tellus
AfDs for this article: 
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Footballer who has never played in a fully-professional league, failing WP:NFOOTY. Prod removed twice by article creator on the incorrect claim that the league is fully-professional. Number  5  7  22:20, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Malta-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 22:27, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 22:31, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 22:32, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 22:32, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 22:33, 2 March 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete Fails WP:NFOOTY and WP:GNG. This article got accepted at AfC in ignorance of WP:NFOOTY and WP:GNG. Editors now have to waste time at AfD on it.Dougal18 (talk) 08:29, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment Hello all, I still believe this article is wrongly listed for deletion. According to Notability (sports)'s WikiProject Football/Fully professional leagues the Maltese Premier League is not a fully professional league (incorrect information). This information clashes with that of the information on the MPL's Wiki page which lists the league as professional (correct information), see Maltese Premier League. Perhaps the fault lies within WikiProject Football/Fully professional leagues needing an update, rather than the page itself or my own 'ignorance'. The subject also competed in the UEFA Cup (Europa League) at the qualifying stages and also proper rounds which increases notability. I find 'Editors now have to waste time at AfD on it.' somewhat callous when there is discussion to be had. regards, User talk:AndrewHaines98 11:07, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Maltese football is largely semi-professional; see, for example, this ("And most of the local-based players are semi-professional."). The Maltese Premier League article was wrongly changed two weeks ago from "semi-professional" to "professional" by an IP (who made that edit only a few hours before you created the Tellus article). Number   5  7  12:21, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Hello, if you read the BBC Sport article carefully it states that Maltese footballers, not the league itself, are largely semi-professional and goes on to state that that 'Maltese Premier League clubs field up to seven foreign players in their starting XI' all of which could be professional as it does not state otherwise or about the league itself, so I do not think that is strong proof that the league is not professional. User talk:AndrewHaines98 09:12, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep For playing in a few UEFA Cup games, per this and this. In my opinion just passes WP:GNG and google searches reveal there are a number of interviews, podcasts, some YouTube videos, etc, and a bit more. Govvy (talk) 22:01, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Playing in the early rounds of the UEFA cup for a team from one of the smallest countries in Europe is in no way an acceptable reason for having an article. Number   5  7  22:35, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
 * I understand this is not a strong argument as as of yet I cannot prove (still searching through old paper cuttings for citation as to why I left it off the page for now) the player competed in one Malta Under-23s game and also played in the Champions League (a Tier 1 international competition) during his time at Valletta FC, see Valletta F.C. European Record 1999-00 they competed in the tournament during his years at the club. User talk:AndrewHaines98 09:17, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete - fails WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTBALL. GiantSnowman 10:20, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete - He has not received significant coverage or played in a fully pro league, meaning the article fails WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTY. Sir Sputnik (talk) 14:46, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete Fails WP:GOLDENRULE, seems a case of WP:TOOSOON till he plays significant league Accesscrawl (talk) 16:08, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
 * reply Toosoon? He is 44 years old!! To everyone else, is no one analysing the sources or doing WP:BEFORE? Govvy (talk) 19:43, 5 March 2019 (UTC)


 * Weak Keep- Me too have to say weak keep. It has some notability for playing in local teams but need more reliable sources. --SalmanZ (talk) 21:52, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Normal-strength keep – Passes GNG after BEFORE search. The top WP:THREE sources are this local newspaper article, this interview, this article, and I'd add this recent interview. Even his wedding got some coverage. From his playing days, though the coverage is routine, he features prominently in several game reports, e.g., by being the player whose photo accompanies the game report and/or by being referred to as the best player on the team, like here, here, here, here, here, and here. Too bad he had the misfortune of playing on a team sponsored by McDonald's. Those uniforms–wow! Leviv&thinsp;ich 19:02, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
 * I was under the impression that you believed there were too many football biographies on Wikipedia, yet arguments like the one you've used here would justify far more articles on semi-pro players that we normally use WP:NFOOTY to exclude. As an example, most of the same arguments you've used above could quite easily be applied to a player from my local semi-pro/eighth tier club AFC Sudbury: There are numerous articles on him in both local media and football websites, as well as match reports that specifically name him in the headline/feature his photo. Realistically, because football gets so much coverage, a line has to be drawn somewhere, otherwise the number of football bios will go even higher than at present.  Number   5  7  19:44, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
 * You are correct; I do believe there are too many football biographies. But I don't understand NFOOTY to be a rule of exclusion; if a subject doesn't pass NFOOTY, the article can still be kept if the subject passes GNG, right? In this instance, I think there's enough SIGCOV to pass GNG. That he doesn't have SIGCOV from his playing days means he wouldn't be notable as a player (since he also doesn't pass NFOOTY), but that doesn't mean he isn't notable as a coach in the present day per the SIGCOV, and thus passes GNG and should be kept. By comparison, James Baker, in my view, doesn't pass NFOOTY or GNG. Of the links you posted, two are significant in length but routine in that they're reports of his transfers. (Every player seems to get a 500-word write-up when they transfer.) The game reports I wouldn't say confer GNG notability to anyone (they are routine), but in the case of Tellus, it shows there's been at least some coverage of him for 20 years. Kind of a pile-on to the SIGCOV he receives today. But to be clear, what makes this a keep for me is the current SIGCOV (the THREE cited above), and not NFOOTY or the coverage he received as a player 20 years ago. Leviv&thinsp;ich 20:29, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
 * You're correct that a player can pass GNG but not NFOOTY; however, this really should only be in exceptional circumstances (such as Sonny Pike), not your average semi-pro player who wasn't good enough to play in a fully-pro league (we're talking here about someone coaching (not even managing) at the seventh level of English football). NFOOTY is more often than not used by project members to exclude players who could arguably be shown to meet GNG. We'll have to agree to disagree about the relative merits of the coverage here, and perhaps I didn't use the best example, but if you're going to push GNG over NFOOTY as the main tool for assessing footballer bios, I'm just flagging up the fact that it will almost certainly open the door to more bios, not fewer. Number   5  7  20:42, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 13:15, 9 March 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.