Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/K-1 Fighting Network KHAN 2007


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. These events may be as people assert, quite notable in the field of kick-boxing, however, our core inclusion policy is verifiability, not truth. That is, we need proof of the notability of the topic. Assertions and arguments are not enough. The bulk of these articles are not reliably sourced, though one article - K-1 World Grand Prix 2007 in Seoul Final 16 - has one source that may be considered WP:ROUTINE or may possibly be acceptable. As the rest are not suitably sourced they will be deleted; the consensus regarding K-1 World Grand Prix 2007 in Seoul Final 16 is unclear, so that will kept as no-consensus.  SilkTork   ✔Tea time  22:30, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

K-1 Fighting Network KHAN 2007

 * – ( View AfD View log )

also nominating: here we go again, with a useless sprawling series of kickboxing results that fail WP:EVENT. LibStar (talk) 07:41, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
 * K-1 World Grand Prix 2007 in Hong Kong
 * K-1 World Grand Prix 2007 in Las Vegas
 * K-1 Fighting Network Hungary 2007
 * K-1 World Grand Prix 2007 in Seoul Final 16
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Korea-related deletion discussions.  — &mdash; alf.laylah.wa.laylah (talk) 15:20, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions.  — &mdash; alf.laylah.wa.laylah (talk) 15:20, 21 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep All - Here we go again with LibStar nominating fight articles that pass WP:EVENT. K-1 is a prominent kickboxing organization with world-ranked fighters. The result of these events determine champions and ranks for contenders. -- NINTENDUDE 64 02:52, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
 * where is the significant coverage in third party sources to demonstrate notability? LibStar (talk) 02:55, 22 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep All WP:EVENT reads "Events are probably notable if they have enduring historical significance and meet the general notability guideline, or if they have a significant lasting effect." These events determine the champions and rankings for the contenders of K-1. Therefore these results of these events have significant lasting effects and thus meet the criteria for WP:EVENT.--Ryan.germany (talk) 13:57, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't believe K-1 has rankings and none of these events determined a champion. Astudent0 (talk) 18:10, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
 * a new interest in kickboxing Ryan? These events do not determine champions or top rankings, they are qualifying events for other events. Many of the participants are non notable. Where is the significant enduring coverage to prove they meet WP:EVENT? LibStar (talk) 14:16, 22 September 2011 (UTC)


 * @LibStar If you must know, I am interested in making the best Wikipedia possible. Here is English language coverage of the K-1 World Grand Prix 2007 in Seoul Final 16 by the Korea Times. I will look for more coverage, however, I reckon that much of the coverage is in the language of where the event took place. --Ryan.germany (talk) 14:42, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
 * that's one source not significant coverage. also it is a news report that happened at the time, where is the long term notability of this event? no evidence of meeting WP:PERSISTENCE. LibStar (talk) 23:48, 22 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep - Topic apparently actually passes WP:EVENT. Please refer to news sources provided above by user Ryan.germany, specifically "Techno Goliath Seeks Revenge" from the Korea Times. Northamerica1000 (talk) 16:19, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
 * that's just one source not significant coverage. also it is a news report that happened at the time, where is the long term notability of this years after the event? no evidence of meeting WP:PERSISTENCE. how about the other events listed in this AfD. LibStar (talk) 23:48, 22 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete All. Topics fail WP:SPORTSEVENT. These preliminary events are not inherently notable as sports events, and received only a small amount of WP:ROUTINE news coverage. --Hobbes Goodyear (talk) 04:45, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete all except K-1 World Grand Prix 2007 in Seoul Final 16 The other articles lack independent sources and are about events that are qualifying events, at best. The Seoul event is the round of 16 for the 2007 K-1 championship and has an independent source.  It could use more, but it may be improveable.  This is the event the "Techno Goliath" article was about, not the Khan event.  Also, there's no deletion tag on the Final 16 article. Papaursa (talk) 17:25, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment All of these events may have sources. I personally feel that that tagging and improving is the way to go rather than deleting. Many of these events had over 10,000 spectators. I could imagine some press was present. However, it could be hard to find due to much of it could be written in a foreign language. --Ryan.germany (talk) 11:15, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
 * a usual round English Premier League game will have over 10,000 spectators and be covered in press, do we create articles for each game? Also see WP:MUSTBESOURCES. LibStar (talk) 12:07, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
 * apples and oranges. A combative sport cannot be compared with a non-combative sport. Furthermore, your link regarding WP:MUSTBESOURCES is not applicable. Please reread what I wrote. I wrote "may" not "must". There is a difference. --Ryan.germany (talk) 09:23, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

"A combative sport cannot be compared with a non-combative sport" so a combative sport is more notable? English Premier League matches easily get more coverage and contain all notable participants compared to these series of results that don't determine rankings or champions. also you are yet to provide evidence of significant coverage to meet WP:PERSISTENCE and WP:EVENT. still waiting. LibStar (talk) 01:07, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
 * @LibStar "so a combative sport is more notable?" How you reach your conclusions bewilders me. Furthermore, as I have written before, my goal is to contribute any way I can to make the best online encyclopedia. That means sometimes tagging and improving. That is what needs to happen here. As to finding more sources, I am way too busy on other articles right now, but I will get to these sometime. --Ryan.germany (talk) 11:20, 28 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete all but the Seoul Final 16 event None of the other events have independent sources or determined a champion. Neither did the Seoul event, but at least it was the final 16 of the tournament and has an independent source. Astudent0 (talk) 18:10, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
 * But it's a single, lonely source that in no way meets "substantial coverage". See WP:ROUTINE. --Hobbes Goodyear (talk) 02:46, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Regarding "substantial coverage" see WP:BURO--Ryan.germany (talk) 09:23, 27 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep all Even if these events aren't as popular to English speaking people as other sports, they are still surely covered in the areas of the world they are held at. Google news archive and book search isn't all knowing, nor anywhere near complete, they stopping that project earlier this year, so no new entries are added.  You thus have to use common sense, and assume that this sport is covered in all the nations participating, showing how well their champion did at the very least.   D r e a m Focus  11:46, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
 * where is the significant coverage in third party sources to demonstrate notability, you have provided no evidence. In all this discussion, only 1 keep !voter has provided one source that merely was coverage at the same time the event occurred. No evidence of long standing notability nor even a shred of evidence of notability for the other events, only vague arguments that this coverage probably exists but I can't be bothered to prove it. LibStar (talk) 12:19, 28 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, TerriersFan (talk) 00:31, 29 September 2011 (UTC)




 * Delete all fail WP:GNG. Stuartyeates (talk) 08:23, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
 * More Sources Here, Here, Here, and Here. A Google News search reveals 85 hits. --Ryan.germany (talk) 11:05, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment Voting with the argument "fail WP:GNG" is not a strong argument. Please expound on the reasoning why something fails a certain policy WP:JUSTAPOLICY--Ryan.germany (talk) 11:05, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep These are some of the biggest and most historically significant events ever held in kickboxing. Many of them feature Grand Prixs which determine the best fighters in the region, and which allows them qualify for the World GP at the end of the year. - Minowafan (talk) 17:28, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.