Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/KMJC (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. and move to dab page, moving KMJC(AM) to this title. Seems the sensible way round the problem. Black Kite 20:04, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

KMJC
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KMJC is the primary identity for the AM station in Mount Shasta, CA and has been the main ID since 1995. The other stations mentioned in the dab page haven't used those call letters for as many as 20 years and 2 stations don't even have articles written yet, so it's not likely anybody is gonna mistakenly think they're reaching the previous stations. Even still, former call signs are no more than secondary IDs. The Yacht club mentioned in the dab page is also red linked and at best is an acronym which definitely makes it a secondary ID for yet another non article. Per the PRIMARYTOPIC page, "When there is a well-known primary topic for an ambiguous term, name or phrase, much more used than any other topic covered in Wikipedia to which the same word(s) may also refer (significantly more commonly searched for and read than other meanings), then that term or phrase should either be used for the title of the article on that topic or redirect to that article. When a topic is the primary topic for more than one name the more common should be the title, and the less common should redirect to the article. Any article which has primary usage for its title and has other uses should have a disambiguation link at the top, and the disambiguation page should link back to the primary topic." I tried to speedy delete this dab page to move KMJC (AM) back to it's main ID, and still believe it should have been handled this way. The author who added the "hang on" tag offered no more discussion than "yes it is legitimate disambiguation page" and has made many contested page moves (see user talk page and reverted page moves) over the last couple of weeks without so much as a reason given in the edit summary. RobDe68 (talk) 22:46, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep If the call letters were ever used by another station, and someone wants to search on them, this will lead them to the correct article (based on geography). Most radio station call letters have disambiguation pages associated with them (it's its own category here). That there are redlinks is irrelevant, and may be helpful in creating a page. I may be arguing this wrong, though - can an option be Create a KMJC (disambiguation page), assign current stations the titles of KMJC (AM) and KMJC (FM)?Vulture19 (talk) 00:04, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
 * If what you say were true then most television, FM and AM stations would require a disambiguation page for all the former uses of it's call sign. Per WP:WPRS naming convention "For articles on stations located in countries which do use government-issued call signs, the official call sign should be used." The only case the naming convention makes for disambiguation pages is if more than one station currently have the base call sign. It does mention acronyms but, as mentioned in my summary, a hatnote would suffice for the aforementioned yacht club (providing it's even notable or necessary, which is debatable itself since both links to the yacht clubs are red links). Former uses of the call sign can easily be covered in the primary ID's article (and I would only make a case for KKLC since that station was previously assigned the calls in this decade. The other 2 stations mentioned last had the calls in the 80's or early 90's and do not even have articles for the current call sign.) RobDe68 (talk) 00:29, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
 * The other stations do have articles. The disambiguation page was pointing to the wrong article titles which I have now fixed (eg. KECR (AM) for KECR, KMXG (FM) for KMXG, and KKLC (FM) for KKLC). Cunard (talk) 22:33, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Redirect to KMJC (AM) Cheap to redirect there and if these other stations haven't used the same calls in years, a note in their article suffices just fine.  Nate  • ( chatter ) 07:56, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment If the dab is deemed unnecessary then there is really no need for a redirect. It should be deleted and the KMJC (AM) page should be moved back to its main identity, as it has been for years, and appropriate hatnotes added. RobDe68 (talk) 16:14, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Move per Cunard. I forgot to realize that the call letters have floated around because of the Magic branding they usually stand for. On the heading of the disambig that should be noted.  Nate  • ( chatter ) 23:35, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete and restore the current KMJC (AM) to KMJC. There is no competition for primary usage here - a hatnote will suffice. JPG-GR (talk) 18:32, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Move KMJC (AM) to KMJC and create a disambiguation page at KMJC (disambiguation) for the other articles. Since the other radio stations have different callsigns, the one that is currently called KMJC should occupy this article title. A mention of the other stations at KMJC (disambiguation) should suffice. Cunard (talk) 22:33, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Move the current article to KMJC (disambiguation), then move KMJC (AM) to KMJC. The station currently using these call letters is clearly the primary topic and should be at the non-disambiguated title. However, I'm not convinced there's no reason to keep the disambiguation page somewhere, since other stations did use these call letters in the past. There are too many ex-KMJC stations for a hatnote IMO. BryanG (talk) 07:26, 22 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Move per above and per WP:DISAMBIG -- Whpq (talk) 17:35, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Four articles is clearly enough for a disambiguation page, so either keep, or move to KMJC (disambiguation) and put a hatnote on KMJC (AM) and move it to KMJC. Whether to do this should be according to consensus. For determining the primary use of the term "KMJC" I provide the following metrics:
 * Internal references: 15 mainspace pages mention "KMJC". Of these, 1 is the dab page and 4 are the station articles being disambiguated; of the rest, 6 refer to the current AM station, 3 refer to both the AM station and the former FM sister station, one refers to the El Cajon station, and none refer to the Iowa station. This weighs in favor of moving this dab page and the primary topic being the current AM station.
 * Google News Archive hits: 7 hits are about the sale of the Mt. Shasta AM and FM stations, 3 are about the El Cajon (San Diego) station, 4 are about the Iowa station, and one I think is a typo of KJMC. There were several false OCR hits, and several apparent references to the yacht club in Dutch. This might barely weigh in favor of the primary topic being the current AM station, but note the search turned up no news articles about the Mt. Shasta AM station exclusively.
 * Years that the call sign was used: KMJC(AM) in El Cajon from 1972 to 1990 (at least 17 years); KMJC-FM in Clinton, IA from 1989 to 1990 and KMJC(FM) until 1993 (together over 3 years); KMJC-FM in Mt. Shasta from 1995 to 2006 (over 10 years); and KMJC(AM) in Mt. Shasta from 1995 to present (over 13 years). El Cajon had the call letters the longest, but the current station is in Mt. Shasta and could potentially be around longer. This is a toss-up between the having the dab page at KMJC (because the San Diego station has a lot of history with those call letters so could almost be a primary topic), and having the Mt. Shasta AM station at KMJC (becuase it is the current station and could potentially be around longer than the San Diego station).
 * The only sources for the yacht club I found were in Dutch or German, and I am not clear on whether the references are more than trivial or if the sources are reliable. I found no reference to it in the German Wikipedia, and only one reference to it in the Dutch Wikipedia at Willem Jan Kruys, where it is spelled out and not abbreviated. Neither the Royal Netherlands Navy article, nor it's Dutch or German counterparts, mention the yacht club. I conclude from this that it may not notable enough for an abbreviation disambiguation. DHowell (talk) 00:34, 24 February 2009 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.