Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/KOTC Vengence


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. Low participation despite the relist, and based on the discussion. Participants may want to consider whether merger could be an appropriate compromise, but since that was not raised in the discussion it didn't factor into my close. Xymmax So let it be written   So let it be done  14:01, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

KOTC Vengence

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Non-notable event, no significant coverage online from WP:Reliable sources. Prod contested by creator. MuffledThud (talk) 19:59, 16 February 2010 (UTC) I am also nominating the following related page because it also asserts no notability, is unreferenced, and has no significant coverage online from WP:Reliable sources:

I am not sure what kind of dislike there seems for King of the Cage MMA, but am just trying to help build up a currently existing page or two with more information. Already included in the King of the Cage page is a list of previous events...that page doesn't have anything after 2004. I am trying to both bolster that list (with actual results) and add the events that have occurred since 2004. Vengeance itself was a very important event in the world of MMA. It was the national network debut of what is considered by many the third biggest USA MMA organization. I think that page should exist. If not on the main KOTC page, at least as part of the list of past events. If King of the Cage isn't important enough to list their events, you should go ahead and delete their page altogether. GUHoyas95 (talk) 20:16, 16 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions.  —MuffledThud (talk) 20:05, 16 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment - title's spelt wrong -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:24, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete I don't see notability. It might be important to KOTC, but the HDNet debut of "what is considered by many the third biggest USA MMA organization" doesn't seem particularly notable in general.  In American MMA there's a big gap between the UFC and KOTC.  Athletic notability usually talks about competing at the highest level (and this isn't) and this surely doesn't pass WP:MANOTE.  If it's so important to KOTC, than perhaps this should be merged into their article (with the correct spelling of vengeance). Papaursa (talk) 19:13, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

I get it, I misspelled Vengeance (I did fix it however)--By your arguments, we should be eliminating many, many pages...including any minor league baseball league or team, certainly there is no room for any results of Eastern League (baseball) there's a big gap between Major League Baseball and AA Baseball. Maybe we should delete all minor college sports conferences like the Ivy League or the Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference...heck college sports in general should go as there is a big gap between professional sports and amateur sports and we should only be talking about sports at its highest level. The simple fact was that there was an EXISTING link on the KOTC page to past events. It was both incomplete and the results of those events were non-existent. As a KOTC fan I thought it would be worthwhile to update the EXISTING list of events and also show the results. I thought that was the whole point of this website. I also thought that helping out would be fun. I maybe wrong on the first part, but it certainly appears like I am wrong on the second. GUHoyas95 (talk) 00:42, 21 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Please note that I didn't advocate getting rid of the KOTC page (which would be equivalent to your conference analogy). This doesn't mean I believe we need the results of every Ivy League or AA game (not even the ones that are televised).  I just would like you to explain what makes this event so notable.  I don't consider being televised notable.  Little League games are televised on ABC and ESPN, which are larger networks, and I don't see anyone claiming they're all notable. Papaursa (talk) 03:58, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Every game result....2009 Akron Aeros season, Results of the 2009 Little League World Series. Look, you guys can do what you want, but why have a list of past events page, if there is no information on those events. GUHoyas95 (talk) 15:50, 21 February 2010 (UTC)


 * I could point out that regional Little League tournament games are shown by ESPN, but I'd like to avoid WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Please just show me the notability of your event.  So far the only point you made was that it was televised, and I don't believe that alone makes an event notable. Papaursa (talk) 18:44, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

No you absolutely already pointed out that regional Little League tournament games are on bigger networks than HDNet it was just your previous post....what you also said was "I don't see anyone claiming they're all notable."....well apparently somebody does because the page Results of the 2009 Little League World Series exists. Again, I am just saying that someone visiting the King of the Cage page has the option of clicking on the list of past events. When you go to that page it would seem to me to make a whole lot of sense to be able to find out the results. But since you are so stuck on the notable thing....how about three title fights, and fights including nine time UFC vet and Ultimate Fighter Season 4 cast member Rich Clementi, UFC,WEC and Strikeforce vet Mike Kyle, and UFC and PRIDE vet Travis Wiuff. But I don't think this is the point. The point is that there is a list of events...results would be nice. I am done arguing. If this page is allowed to stand, I plan to go ahead and update all of the past events--to the extent that the results are available from reputable sources. If not, I won't waste my time.GUHoyas95 (talk) 19:08, 21 February 2010 (UTC)  Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Cirt (talk) 03:54, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.