Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kain Rivers (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. ✗ plicit  12:01, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

Kain Rivers
AfDs for this article:


 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Fails WP:NMUSIC, this article is poorly sourced (from Russian sources), also contain undisclosed payments. Aesthetic Writer (talk) 11:50, 13 January 2022 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗  plicit  13:13, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Aesthetic Writer (talk) 11:50, 13 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Russia-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 11:54, 13 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ukraine-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 11:54, 13 January 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗  plicit  14:23, 27 January 2022 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 06:49, 4 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment: I was minded to close this as soft-delete but it appears to have previously survived AFD and I'm not sure it's eligible. Stifle (talk) 11:14, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Stifle: note that the article's talk page is currently still deleted, that might not have been your intention. Kind regards from  PJvanMill ) talk ( 12:45, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Whoops. Restored. Stifle (talk) 14:34, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Weak keep This article has BLP violations, inappropriate use of sources, and it is promotional. However, these are all problems that can be addressed through normal editing. Similarly, the use of Russian sources does not have to be a problem at all, per WP:NONENG - the current lack of verifiability caused by this can be addressed with the help of a Russian-speaking Wikipedian. Now, I'm not sure whether Ukraine's national qualifier for the Junior Eurovision Song Festival counts as a "major music competition" as meant in WP:NSINGER, but I'm guessing it probably would? In that case, the article would pass WP:NMUSIC after all. Looking at the sources, it seems like there is at least some significant coverage in news sources... but again, we would really need the help of a Russian speaker to determine the amount of coverage and the reliability of these sources. Lastly, we should consider whether the present state of the article is so bad that using some WP:TNT might be justified in order to deny the use of Wikipedia for promotion and discourage undisclosed paid editing. However, I think the article can be drastically improved in a few edits... I think the notability is questionable, but with some doubt I think this should be kept for now, noting that the article will need substantial cleanup to become acceptable, and noting that it should later be given a proper evaluation of notability, which is currently hard to make.  PJvanMill ) talk ( 13:18, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Correction: it was of course the national qualifier for the Junior Eurovision song contest. I should also note that he cannot really be said to be in the top three - as I understand it, the jury only named the winner, not a ranking. Both of these considerations make the NSINGER case a lot weaker.  PJvanMill ) talk ( 21:21, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Now having gone through the sources to the best of my ability using machine translation tools, I change my recommendation to Delete. Most of the article is strung together from primary sources detailing certain achievements and performances, without any secondary sources that consider these relevant. Other sources hardly talk about the subject. The remaining sources seem rather unreliable: low-quality journalism without a named author. I do not see a single independent, reliable secondary source that talks about the subject in any level of detail. Thus I conclude it is not even close to meeting the WP:GNG, and I also base myself on my earlier considerations.  PJvanMill ) talk ( 22:59, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Comment This article has a promotional purpose, most sources are from newspapers that do not show a notability. There are several citations in Russian national newspapers Channel One Russia, Komsomolskaya Pravda; but they are not enough to establish the notability of this article. I also tried to identify new sources, but as a result I did not find anything notable.--Tysska (talk) 15:56, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete Not notable sources were identified for the article to be preserved.--Tysska (talk) 11:39, 4 February 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Delete agree, if no reliable sources found. delete. Oaktree b (talk) 14:05, 4 February 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.