Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kaleem Ahmad Khursheed


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. RL0919 (talk) 15:54, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Kaleem Ahmad Khursheed

 * – ( View AfD View log )

I'm not sure if this person is explicitly notable or even a borderline. I recently approved the AfC draft thinking that I might come up with more information in native language, but sadly, no help avail. That said, there also seem few editors interested in this, and this can be a UPE case as well. Lateley, I came through Draft:Pir Syed Mohmmad Kaleem Ahmad Khursheed, and it seems the related editors have badly tried to game the system ─ The Aafī   (talk)|undefined  17:28, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Pakistan-related deletion discussions. ─  The Aafī   (talk)|undefined  17:28, 25 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Comment Pinging who rejected Draft:Syed Kaleem Ahmad Khursheed Law Associates. ─  The Aafī   (talk)|undefined  17:34, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment All I can say is that the person who created the article is currently blocked for disruptive editing (repeatedly submitting the same drafts) and I believe there is an undeclared conflict of interest. I feel unqualified to judge whether this particular individual is notable in terms of the legal profession. Deb (talk) 07:38, 26 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Comment [I add References to this article] --SidraRanaAdv  15:22, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep — He's senior Supreme Court lawyer and ex Chief of two of notable Bar associations of Pakistan (Lahore High Court Bar Association and Supreme Court Bar Association of Pakistan. ☢️ Radioactive 🎃 (talk) 09:56, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment I'm unsure why User:TheAafi is constantly doing disruptive edits by removing references added for info verification again and again. To avoid edit warring I refrained myself from reverting his edits, seems like he has a some sort of conflict of interest here with kaleem Ahmad Khursheed. ☢️ Radioactive 🎃 (talk) 09:56, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
 * , "You have miserably misunderstood the WP:COI." Nonetheless, the references that were removed had passing mentions (and few were containing merely one fact which was already referenced in the article and WP:CITEKILL is definitely not helpful). You perhaps need to check WP:SIGCOV. Anyway, how does being a president of a Bar Association help someone pass WP:JUDGE or any other subjective criteria? Here has conflict of interest (she is connected with the subject) and no one else. ─  The Aafī   (talk)|undefined  10:03, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
 * The way you have misrepresented the diff above is worst. The article history is right there to elaborate, how the references were removed. ─ The Aafī   (talk)|undefined  10:06, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment I'd like to ask, and  to have a look at the article and tell me if I am mistaken somewhere. Thanks. ─  The Aafī   (talk)|undefined  10:12, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Also and  who declined the "duplicate draft" of the article, Draft:Pir Syed Mohmmad Kaleem Ahmad Khursheed. I'd like to have your ideas as well. ─  The Aafī   (talk)|undefined  10:14, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I specifically rejected that draft due to it having (at the time) both unsourced statements which needed citations per WP:BLP, and very subjective statements such as calling him “ the most prominent Naqshbandi Dargah (Shrine) in Asia”—I don’t remember doing any significant research beyond that point (though the sources it did cite did look legit, if I’m remembering correctly). Yitz (talk) 13:32, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Law-related deletion discussions. ─  The Aafī   (talk)|undefined  10:15, 30 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Comment well I’d say that a lawyer who argues before a Supreme Court would need to be a good GNG pass as I don’t see what other basis they’d pass on. This subject doesn’t look like a strong GNG pass to me. On the other hand I see we already have bios for other Presidents of the SC Bar Association in Pakistan, thought most of them do seem to be GNG passes. I’ll look again later when I have more time. Mccapra (talk) 10:19, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete I skipped over this in AfC as I wasn't sure enough but thought it failed WP:GNG, I was also one of the six decliners of Draft:Syed Kaleem Ahmad Khursheed Law Associates. This definitely has the smell of COI/UPE/promotion. On reconsideration here not being able to read ref 2 & 3 does not matter as they are used to source nothing to aid notability. The remaining sources fail to show WP:GNG. Cheers KylieTastic (talk) 17:02, 31 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete Fails GNG, no independent coverage available. We need in-depth coverage to qualify for GNG which the subject misses. Hypogaearoots (talk) 07:10, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Berrely  • Talk∕Contribs 14:59, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete I can't see any evidence that this individual meets WP:BASIC, or is within one of the additional criteria mentioned at WP:BIO. ninety:one 16:02, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete I haven’t found anything that would make this a GNG pass. Mccapra (talk) 21:13, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep — He's is member of Pakistan bar councel
 * Keep — He is a writer of many books which are not published online forums. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SidraRanaAdv (talk • contribs)
 * Comment I'm generally opposed to the idea of "fruit of the poison tree" = deletion, and this particular article is a good example. The subject was president of the bar association of the apex court of a country of 200+ million people.  Around 3,000 of what would be the country's most prominent, established (elite) lawyers voted in the election he won.  It's hard to envisage this person is not notable, has not argued in significant cases etc. Sourcing in the article is weak, moreover, there are only smatterings of mentions in English (although there are a lot more smatterings under the name "Pir Kaleem Khurshid"), hence sitting on the fence for the moment.  I've not searched in Urdu as I'm not certain of the spelling of his name for the latter version. I think it's important to give this AfD a little more time, in order to do further searching in Urdu, as I expect there would be far more offline coverage here (especially Urdu language newspapers). Pinging  for comment. Regards,  --Goldsztajn (talk) 04:23, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
 * It's not possible to confirm, but a search for "Syed Muhammad Kalim Ahmed Khursheed" gives hits in the Biographical Encyclopedia of Pakistan, which possibly means satisfying c.3 of of WP:ANYBIO, but Google books does not reveal enough to verify if it is an individual entry. Goldsztajn (talk) 08:53, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete Fails GNG and Basic Bio notability.– ItsSkV08 (talk) 07:04, 8 August 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.