Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kaleem Shah (actor)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. j⚛e deckertalk 23:50, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

Kaleem Shah (actor)

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Unreferenced for eight years, flagged as such for three years, and the usual searches uncovered no sources. Looking through the List of film periodicals I don't see any obvious Pashto-specific sources to search. With no references, the subject cannot meet any notability guideline. Worldbruce (talk) 00:55, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. Worldbruce (talk) 00:56, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Pakistan-related deletion discussions. Worldbruce (talk) 00:56, 28 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep: Lack of attention does not equate to lack of notability, particularly for people who are deceased and their main career occurred before the age of the internet, particularly in the Third World. Looks like he was in a number of films and I don't think we should let lack of online or English-language sources provide grounds for deletion. I'd tread cautiously to be careful about our own possible pro-western bias.  Montanabw (talk)  06:30, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Note, I am seeing him in non-wiki mirrors at the following locations:,  (misspelled).  Probably someone who knows that part of the world can help; I suggest posting at wikiproject Pakistan or something.   Montanabw (talk)  06:48, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for searching mazhar.dk; it's encouraging that the name appears in the credits for two films. When I nominated it, I made sure it was listed in WikiProject Pakistan's "Articles up for deletion" section. If you think a more prominent announcement or one targeted at a different group would be helpful, by all means make it.
 * I have to disagree with your assertion that "lack of attention does not equate to lack of notability." Notability in a nutshell is: "significant attention by the world at large and over a period of time." The attention certainly does not need to be online or in English, but notability requires verifiable evidence in some form. That is true no matter what time period or part of the world is involved. Worldbruce (talk) 08:07, 28 June 2015 (UTC)


 * My concern here is a pro-western bias; I think we need to hesitate to delete articles of this sort - those that are most likely to need someone who is close to the topic to assess notability because there simply will not be a lot of sources we can access from our 21st-century first world vantage point. (I recently helped salvage Hilda Plowright, for example).  What I meant by "lack of attention" was "lack of editor attention" - in response to your "unreferenced for eight years" comment. I'm sympathetic to your position (I'm often the first to complain that some footballer who played one season of professional leagues in a small third world nation is deemed notable), but I think this is an area where we need to assume good faith that offline sources exist, particularly where this individual does have an extensive filmography, even if all are Pakistani films.   Montanabw (talk)  20:02, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, JAaron95  Talk   16:01, 5 July 2015 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete - article is unsourced, two film credits have been unearthed, but nothing else. Web searches get links to a homonymous entrepreneur, nothing on the actor, albeit for the already mentioned reason. So, the actor existed, but his notability has not been established. We can not invert the onus of the guideline, saying that anybody who has not been proven non-notable may be included, to avoid possible bias. Sorry. Kraxler (talk) 17:29, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 01:27, 13 July 2015 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  MBisanz  talk 01:15, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete, notability not established as per Kraxler. --kelapstick(bainuu) 15:46, 25 July 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.