Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kamifusen (duo)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. No prejudice against speedy renomination; sadly, the walls of text produced here appear to have discouraged participation. Vanamonde (Talk) 17:30, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

Kamifusen (duo)

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Apparently a Kamifusen is an inflatable Japanese paper balloon which sort of describes this article. Impressive looking references break down quite quickly when fed into Translate to give passing mentions, catalogue entries and short one-para pieces but nothing that would consist of critical review or significant coverage. The most striking line to establish notability in the article is "In 1977, Kamifusen had their first major hit "Before Winter Comes", which became a signature song for the group. The song reached number 4 on the Oricon Singles Chart" sourced to two interviews and the third source being a broken link. In the two interviews, both short, the record is referred to as 'selling quite well'. The link is to Japanese Wikipedia. Fails WP:GNG; WP:BAND. Alexandermcnabb (talk) 10:51, 14 October 2022 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗  plicit  12:06, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Japan. Alexandermcnabb (talk) 10:51, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 21:52, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep because Kamifusen the duo satisfies WP:GNG and WP:BAND, as they meet the following criteria.
 * 1,Has had a single or album on any country's national music chart. In 1977, Kamifusen had their first major hit "Before Winter Comes", which became a signature song for the group. The song reached number 4 on the weekly Oricon Singles Chart. The information is retrieved from the Japanese Wikipedia page of "Before Winter Comes", which also listed other high ranking of the song including 27th in 1978 yearly Oricon Singles Chart and 8th on TBS The Best Ten. This source also verifies that the song was ranked in TBS “The Best Ten” and sale totaled 450,000 copies.
 * 2.Has released two or more albums on a major record label. This AllMusic.com citation provides an incomplete list of Kamifusen’s catalogue and shows that 2 of their albums were released by Sony Music, which is a major record label. The release of these 2 albums and more by Sony Music Entertainment (Japan), Inc. can be verified through their Spotify artist page.
 * 3.Has performed music for a work of media that is notable, e.g., a theme for a network television show, performance in a television show or notable film, inclusion on a notable compilation album, etc. A chart for Tie-Ups, which is translated from Kamifusen’s original Japanese Wikipedia page, will shortly be added to the English page with proper citations. Some notable performance include: Kamifusen performed/recorded the ending theme song “I Was Born” of Fuji TV’s Nissei Family Special Feature Animation “Tondemo Nezumi Daikaku”. They also performed the theme song for TBS TV drama Love Theater “Wagakoyo III”. “I Want To Be Like You” is the ending theme for MBS TV drama special “Cynthia – The story of the birth of a service dog”. Their hit song “Before Winter Comes” appeared on Fuji TV’s “Night Hit Studio”, broadcasted on February 13, 1978.
 * 4.In addition, per WP:NEXIST: The absence of sources or citations in an article (as distinct from the non-existence of sources) does not indicate that a subject is not notable. Notability requires only the of suitable independent, reliable sources, not their immediate presence or citation in an article. Editors evaluating notability should consider not only any sources currently named in an article, but also the possibility or existence of notability-indicating sources that are not currently named in the article. Thus, before proposing or nominating an article for deletion, or offering an opinion based on notability in a deletion discussion, editors are strongly encouraged to attempt to find sources for the subject in question and consider the possibility that sources may still exist even if their search failed to uncover any. Sushi114Su (talk) 20:52, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Delete: Per Nom. Sources that are deemed "insufficient" are interviews (Sponichi Annex, science.ne.jp/info/177, narweb.com) and do not advance notability, nor does a listing at Discogs. There are promotional sites (jp.yamaha.com -- advertising tickets), The listing of a show (tvdrama-db.com) that simply lists the theme song, and radio station (www.mbs1179.com) schedules, means the subject suffers from a lack of significant coverage from independent sources. I didn't check every one as the pattern was clear. Reasons for deletion #8, #9, and #14. It is strange to see NEXIST argued as a reason to keep. If the rationale was that simple we could argue to keep every article on Wikipedia. The last paragraph of WP:NEXIST states: However, once an article's notability has been challenged, merely asserting that unspecified sources exist is seldom persuasive, especially if time passes and actual proof does not surface. Verifiability includes BURDEN. A WP:BEFORE (step D) explains the procedure and #3 states: If you find a lack of sources, you've completed basic due diligence before nominating. NOTE: A hindrance to searches would be the article sources are not in English. Yeah, yeah! I know it is legit but my point is that someone with better access to those type sources might be able to find reliable and independent sources that advance notability per Hey.  --  Otr500 (talk) 23:50, 29 October 2022 (UTC)


 *  Keep : WP:NMUSIC outlines the Criteria for musicians and ensembles for notability. The sources cited verify the criteria stated and explained above. Additionally, #7 applies, as Etsujiroh Gotoh and Yasuyo Hirayama are prominent representatives of the Japanese folk scene in the Kansai area, and this has been cited - "Has become one of the most prominent representatives of a notable style or the most prominent of the local scene of a city; note that the subject must still meet all ordinary Wikipedia standards, including verifiability". NOTE: Also replying regarding WP:Hey: Citations have been added from Mainichi Shimbun, Nikkan Gendai , Oricon News and considering the volume of activity on television and releases on major record labels, including Sony Music, EMI Music, and King Records, it’s more than likely that there are reviews by journalists of secondary, independent sources and unlikely there are none. Kamifusen also collaborated internationally, with Peter Yarrow personally writing a song for them, which was recorded in Santa Monica with Joni Mitchell’s producer Henry Lewy as their producer, and they recorded in Toronto with Steve Sexton, of The Anne Murray’s Band, arranging, and the band playing on the recording sessions. The Tie-Ups' table and songs in NHK television shows on the Japanese Wikipedia page have been translated and added NHK is nationwide and worldwide. These meet criteria towards notability. The citations verify these facts are true. Sushi114Su (talk) 22:38, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
 * You actually only get to vote once? Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 04:13, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, you can only vote once in an AFD discussion so I have struck your second vote. Liz Read! Talk! 06:43, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

Relisting comment: The sources provided as evidence of GNG have been convincingly rebutted, but the argument that this group meets other criteria in NBAND has not been discussed. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Vanamonde (Talk) 17:18, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment That's an argument that's as much paper as Kamifusen are a balloon. The first and second sources are non-RS (Allmusic and Spotify), the next two from Mainichi both contain the immortal words "pay article". Nikkan Gendai is a two line interview-based piece 'Where are they now?' (just as pertinent would be 'where were they then?'). The Oricon source is already cited in the article and is a listing of TV appearances (if being on TV made you notable, I'd be Notey McNoteface). It's all cruft, as are the sources in the article. Kamifusen are simply.not.notable. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 04:10, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
 * The nominator writes that the two articles in Mainichi Shimbun "both contain the immortal words 'pay article'". However, the nominator hastily misinterprets and misrepresents to this AfD "pay article" as an advertisement when in fact it is an article behind a paywall in which readers have to pay to read the full article - One has 458 out of 867 words left and the other has 420 out of 830 words left. If anyone would like to verify this, put this into Google Translate and see what it says: "この記事は有料記事です. 残り420文字（全文830文字）. " This line is preceded by a lock icon, which is familiar in references such as EBSCO and other newspaper sites behind paywalls. Sushi114Su (talk) 21:40, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment WP:AFDEQ Wikietiquette  Users participating in AfD discussions are expected to be familiar with the policy of civility and the guidelines Wikietiquette and "do not bite the newbies".   Avoid personal attacks against people who disagree with you; avoid the use of sarcastic language and stay cool. Sushi114Su (talk) 20:01, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Comment The nominator writes that the two articles in Mainichi Shimbun "both contain the immortal words 'pay article'". However, the nominator hastily misinterprets and misrepresents to this AfD "pay article" as an advertisement when in fact it is an article behind a paywall in which readers have to pay to read the full article - One has 458 out of 867 words left and the other has 420 out of 830 words left. If anyone would like to verify this, put this into Google Translate and see what it says: "この記事は有料記事です. 残り420文字（全文830文字）. " This line is preceded by a lock icon, which is familiar in references such as EBSCO and other newspaper sites behind paywalls.
 * Therefore "The sources provided as evidence of GNG have NOT been convincingly rebutted" and the nominator has NOT done sufficient WP:BEFORE. Perhaps this nominator could allow other new page patrollers who are more familiar with Asian press and subjects to review Asian-related pages.
 * Also adding to the argument to keep this article, the two members of Kamifusen meet criteria for WP:COMPOSER: #1 Has credit for writing or co-writing either lyrics or music for a notable composition; #4 Has written a composition that has won (or in some cases been given a second or other place) in a major music competition not established expressly for newcomers.
 * The following are several of a great number of articles that come up from cross-searches in the Asahi Shimbun Database archived articles 1985-present, accessed through an academic library. I cannot cite them because the links won't be available for the general public. Hopefully, there are editors with access to these kind of sources who might help.
 * 1. Title: Kamifusen "Tsubasa wo Kudasai" becomes Japan Football Association's cheering song [Osaka] No.00005 April 9, 1998 evening paper ＹＵ３ 007 pages, 00424 characters. The single CD "Tsubasa wo Kudasai", which was jointly recorded by the chorus club of Minatojima Elementary School, Kobe Municipal Minatojima Elementary School and others, has been officially recognized by the Japan Football Association as the official cheering song. Last year, the official approval was decided because the supporters who cheered for the Japanese national team sang at the final Asian qualifying round of the World Cup. It looks like it's going to be a hit again for the first time in 28 years for the French tournament in June. This song became popular in 1970 when it was sung by the folk group "Red Bird." The group disbanded in 1974, but among the five members, Etsujiro Goto and Yasuyo Hirayama formed " Kamifusen " and sang this song at concert venues. It has been adopted in elementary school music textbooks and has been loved by people of all ages.  Supporters, who are overwhelmingly young, said that when someone started singing, it spread to everyone.  The two of Kamifusen said, "I was deeply moved when I thought that singing with fans for a long time led to that event. If possible, I would like to go to France."
 * 2. Title: Reconstruction, Gradual Masterpiece Children's "Lyrics", Composed by Kamifusen Goto [Osaka] No.00006 January 6, 2009 evening paper 2 Society 012 pages, 01199 characters. Since last spring, at 8:55 every morning, there is a song that is playing at Ashiya City Hall in Hyogo Prefecture. "I like this town." Etsujiro Goto (62), a resident of Nishinomiya City in the same prefecture, who is a folk duo known for hit songs such as "Fuyu ga Kaku Mae Ni", wrote a poem based on a poem by an elementary school student wishing for recovery from the Great Hanshin Earthquake. Although it is not recorded on CD and is not widely known, it is sung by local chorus groups and others. The song was created in the winter three years after the earthquake. The Ashiya City PTA Association planned to solicit poems from elementary school students in the city under the theme of "My town, Ashiya," and sing them at a public concert. Fifty-seven percent of buildings in Ashiya City were completely or partially destroyed by the earthquake, and even at that time, temporary housing remained on the playground of the elementary school.  Mr. Goto of Kamifusen was also affected by the disaster at his apartment in Nishinomiya City. His parents' house was also completely destroyed, and he temporarily stayed at an acquaintance's house in Osaka Prefecture. Goto, who was asked to compose a song, read all the poems written by the children and picked out words that left an impression on him.  There are no words in the completed song that directly recall the disaster. Mr. Goto said, "Many lives were lost, and each one had to stop their legs from shaking, so there was no need to say, 'Let's do our best.' I made it in one night, hoping that at least I could get close to the people who listen and sing with a gentle song that reminds me of my hometown."  In February 1998, the song was sung for the first time at a concert held at Miyagawa Elementary School's gymnasium. After that, the song gradually became popular through word of mouth, and Mayor Ken Yamanaka heard the song at a city event and said, "Let's carry on the wish for reconstruction." did. On the 16th of this month, a chorus group in the city will perform at the Municipal Museum of Art.  Mr. Goto said, "I think that falling in love with a town is something that can only be felt when there is solidarity between people. As an author, it is my greatest pleasure to see songs being sung and passed down over time." ing. (Kana Yamada)
 * 3. Tite: 30 Years of Friendship Fork Kamifusen [Osaka] No.00008 November 04, 2004 evening paper entertainment 006 pages, 00996 characters. Folk duo Kamifusen celebrated its 30th anniversary. 1977's hit song "Before Winter Comes" is now a standard number. Etsujiro Goto and Yasuyo Hirayama, who are also partners in real life, look back, "I have been trying to create songs carefully and give concerts that value the fans." A memorial recital will be held at Namba Hatch in Minami, Osaka on the 12th. The two are classmates at Hyogo Prefectural Amagasaki Kita High School. Goto formed a folk band at Kyoto University of Foreign Studies, and Hirayama studied vocal music at Mukogawa Women's University. "We formed a duo in 1967, when we were in the second year of university. I wanted to get her attention," Goto invited her to a concert in which her own band also appeared, drawing her into the folk world. For the next two years, she sang traditional Japanese songs such as "Kiso-bushi" once a month at a community center in Amagasaki.  With the addition of three other members, they made their debut in 1970 with the band "Akai Tori". They left famous songs such as "Takeda's Lullaby" and "Tsubasa wo Kudasai".  However, Goto said, "I was thinking of disbanding in my second year as a professional. Appearing on TV and radio, busy with recording, I didn't have time to create things at all. It was a pity that I could not interact with the fans enough. One month's worth of fan letters were handed over from the office. The teacher at the branch school in Hokkaido sent me a passionate letter saying 'I want you to come sing before the school closes down', but I couldn't make it in time..."  In August 1974, the group disbanded. In September of the same year, it made a fresh start as Kamifusen.  Underlying this was the desire to create works with great care and to interact with fans at concerts. “Before Winter Comes” was also recorded after two years of meticulously singing it at concerts around the country. The two look back on how this attitude led to a big hit.  He is also interested in social issues, and has put messages into his songs and sent them out. In the Great Hanshin-Awaji Earthquake of 1995, an apartment building in Nishinomiya City, Hyogo Prefecture was damaged. Inspired by the sight of strangers helping each other, Hirayama suggested writing a song to support service dogs such as guide dogs, which he had always been interested in. In 2002, he released "I want to be your wind".  The memorial recital consists of two parts. The first part is traditional Japanese songs, and the second part sings representative songs such as "Tsubasa wo Kudasai" and "Before Winter Comes".
 * 4. Title: Duo Kamifusen (Osaka) writes songs to soothe the hearts of victims of the Ehime Maru No.00017 May 12, 2001 evening paper 2 Society 014 pages, 00677 characters. "The sound of the bells in the distance echoes quietly in my heart Today's wind, the sea breeze, that person's scent." The folk duo Kamifusen living in Nishinomiya City, Hyogo Prefecture, who have continued to support victims of the Great Hanshin Earthquake, have composed a song to soothe the hearts of the victims of the Ehime Maru, a fishing training vessel that sank off the coast of Hawaii. Having experienced the disaster himself, he thought that he would be able to deliver a song that could share his sorrow to families left behind in anxiety and sorrow. The title is "Blue Sky and Sea". The melody was intentionally made bright and clear so as not to make it too sad, with the idea that even if you are in Japan, the sky and the sea are connected to Hawaii. The lyrics continue, "Now the blue sky is your smile, now the sound of the waves is your voice."  The lyrics and music were written by Yasuyo Hirayama. In March, Jake Shimabukuro, who used the ukulele to cheer up the victim's family in Hawaii, made a guest appearance on her regular radio program and felt a strong sense of grief over the accident. At dusk in late April, when the scent of the sea wafted from the beach, he said, "I wondered what kind of feelings the same scent would bring back to the people who remembered their childhood bathing in the sea, and the next moment they were waiting for their family to return." It is said that the soothing sound of bells ringing in temples and churches naturally came to mind and became a song.  Partner Etsujiro Goto said, "I hope that by singing, everyone can share their thoughts, and by preventing the memory of the accident from fading, it will calm the hearts of the victims and their families." The song will be performed at a recital on June 4th at Theater Drama City in Chayamachi, Osaka.  [Photo explanation] Etsujiro Goto of Kamifusen says, "I want to include the song in the CD album that will be released in the fall."(right) and Yasuyo Hirayama in Nishinomiya, Hyogo Prefecture
 * 5. Title: 40 years since the formation of the folk duo Kamifusen, an exhibition that follows the trajectory Sumoto Stationery Store / Hyogo Prefecture In commemoration of the 40th anniversary of the formation of the folk song duo "Kamifusen", known for their beautiful harmonies, an exhibition tracing the trajectory of their success is being held at the stationery store "Sakabunshodo" in Honmachi 5-chome, Sumoto City. Old record jackets, posters, and books are on display. A total of about 150 pieces are lined up, including those of the duo's predecessor folk song group "Red Bird". Until the 31th. Masafumi Sakamoto, 54, the president of the company, who has a relationship with the members of the duo, planned an exhibition to let people experience the charm of "red birds" and "kamifusen". He has published his own collection so far.  "Red Bird" was formed in 1969. The chorus work is attractive, and songs such as "Takeda's Lullaby" and "Tsubasa wo Kudasai" gained popularity. After disbanding in 1974, members Etsujiro Goto and Yasuyo Hirayama formed "Kamifusen" in the same year. Known for hit songs such as "Before winter comes".  At the venue, in addition to EPs with paper jackets, LP records and old music magazines, there are also many not-for-sale items such as mini-comic magazines issued by the affiliated office, concert pamphlets, and sample records. In addition, there are treasured items such as photographs of Mr. and Mrs. Goto who attended Mr. Sakamoto's wedding, handwritten musical scores, and progress charts of concerts.(Toshiya Maeda)  [Photo explanation] Mr. Masafumi Sakamoto talks about his youthful memories in front of the items in his collection = 5-chome, Honmachi, Sumoto City
 * 6. Title: Ashiya City celebrates 70th anniversary Air raids and earthquake damage buildings Citizens look back on chorus and drama / Hyogo Prefecture No.00002 November 04, 2010 morning paper Hanshin, 1 region 021 pages, 01031 characters. Ashiya City celebrates its 70th anniversary on the 10th of this month. On the 3rd of Culture Day, a commemorative ceremony was held at Luna Hall in Narihira-cho, the same city where citizens gathered. A total of about 1,200 people gathered in the morning and afternoon sessions to look back on the history of overcoming the air raids during World War II and the Great Hanshin Earthquake through chorus and drama.(Naoyoshi Mori) Ashiya City was established in November 1940 as the 173rd city in Japan. From the early Showa period, Rokurokuso town was developed in the mountains, and the image of a high-class residential area was established. In the January 1995 earthquake, about 90% of buildings were destroyed and 444 people died.  At the morning ceremony, the "Ashiya Boys and Girls Chorus" and the "Ashiyagawa Thursday Chorus" jointly sang "Kono Machi ga Suki". Based on a poem written by elementary school students in the city in hopes of recovery from the earthquake, this song was composed by Etsujiro Goto of the folk duo Kamifusen , known for songs such as "Before Winter Comes."  In the afternoon, Ashiya City-based theater troupe “Aozora Drama Company” made up of citizens will put on a stage that follows the footsteps of the city. In the form of an old man telling his family an old tale, there is a ghost called "Nue" with a monkey head, tiger limbs, and a snake tail, which is said to have a grave in the city, and Junichiro Tanizaki's novel "Tanizaki Junichiro" set in Ashiya. Introduced "Sasuyuki" etc. During the scene of the earthquake, photos of the devastated city were shown on a large screen, and the performers talked about their feelings. Sushi114Su (talk) 07:23, 7 November 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.