Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kanoksak Wongrattanawijit


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. choosing delete rather then no-consensus since we actually seem to be guessing here then relying on reliable sourcing. BLP to me suggest we err on the side of caution so choosing to delete. Will be very happy to revisit this if some detailed sources can be found later on Spartaz Humbug! 21:45, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Kanoksak Wongrattanawijit

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Can't find evidence that he's played for Sriracha therefore he fails WP:ATHLETE. Spiderone (talk) 08:44, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football related deletions. Spiderone (talk) 08:44, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom; non-notable footballer who fails WP:ATHLETE. GiantSnowman 10:30, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions.  -- TexasAndroid (talk) 13:44, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Athletes-related deletion discussions.  -- TexasAndroid (talk) 13:44, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep. He's listed on the club's web-page - Number 25 "กนกศักดิ์ วงศ์รัตนวิจิตร".  And he's mentioned in several media articles such as -, , and .  As he's 28 years of age, and on the squad of a fully-professional team, and has several mentions in the media, it seem inplausible that he's never appeared in a game! Nfitz (talk) 00:57, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
 * You can't say that because of his age he MUST have played a game, what a ridiculous suggestion. Ray Stubbs, for example, was on the books of Tranmere Rovers from age 24 to 29, and never made a first team appearance! Provide sources if he has played a match please. GiantSnowman 11:40, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree, I'm growing tired of people assuming that people have played matches. Take Stuart Searle, for example who plays for MK Dons, is 30 years old and hasn't played a league match.Spiderone (talk) 12:39, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
 * And I'm getting tired of people claiming that just because one person can't find sources a subject fails notability guidelines - the statement, "therefore he fails WP:ATHLETE" is not a logical consequence of your failure to find sources. Please have a little humility and say something like "I can't confirm that he passes WP:ATHLETE", as it's quite possible that someone else may be able to find the sources that you can't. Phil Bridger (talk) 22:55, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Totally agree with this response, although maybe for the two deletionists at the top of this discussion, maybe 'can't find' should be replaced by 'not bothering to look for'. 8lgm (talk) 08:34, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I did not say he "must" have. I said that because he's listed on a small roster, has numerious mentions in newspaper articles (that appear to be match reports), and that he's no spring chicken, that it's pausible that he's played.  For most of these AfD's we have clear evidence that there have not been professional appearances; however with the language barrier, that is more difficult here, but I'd say the balance of evidence would suggest he has played. Perhaps someone who Thai is better than mine can review? I'll gladly remove my keep if it's clear he has never left the bench. Nfitz (talk) 23:34, 19 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete fails WP:V, which is the daddy of them all. --Dweller (talk) 13:50, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment. The club web site cited above gets the subject through verifiability. Phil Bridger (talk) 19:06, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ~ mazca  talk 01:48, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.


 * Comment: It seems English-language verifiability is going to be very difficult at present, as nothing seems to turn up on any Google search (except Wiki mirrors), news source, or official site in English. Sounds like a possible candidate for Thai-language Wikipedia, but for English-language Wikipedia I remain more doubtful, neutral, leaning toward either a weak delete or posting a "rescue" tag on the article. There could be a transliteration problem, however, as the name may be spelled various ways when transliterated from the Thai alphabet into English, causing Google searches to fail under this one spelling, in which case I would then lean more towards weak "keep." I must state for the record that I do not know how important Thai footballers are in the whole scheme of things in Western football/soccer. If quite important, then I would lean more towards a reserved keep. Softlavender (talk) 10:06, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment. English Wikipedia is an encyclopedia about the whole world, not just the English-speaking or the Western world, so the issue is not how important Thai footballers are in the whole scheme of things in Western football/soccer. Phil Bridger (talk) 11:11, 26 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep. It seems reasonable he has actually played a game, and we need to be aware of the lack of English-language links and not to perpetuate 'western bias'. Eldumpo (talk) 13:59, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete no verifiable reliable secondary sources in any leanguage, thus failing WP:V and WP:N. --Jimbo[online] 15:00, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * You say 'in any language' though, but can you read Thai script? Eldumpo (talk) 15:41, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * A clubs webpage isn't an independent secondary source as per fourth bullet point @ WP:GNG. --Jimbo[online] 17:10, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * But what about the news articles linked above in Nfitz's first edit? And, as I have already written above, the club's website is perfectly sufficient for verifiability. The only issue is with notability. Phil Bridger (talk) 19:44, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * None of the links work on IE or Firefox for me. --Jimbo[online] 20:23, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Of Nifitz's numbered links 2 and 3 are broken but 1 works for me in that it goes to a page with Thai script (i'm using IE). Eldumpo (talk) 21:30, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * One link is hardly significent secondary coverage. Thus still failing GNG. --Jimbo[online] 21:46, 26 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Note: I never intended to imply a western bias, only that if Thai football is not covered in Latin alphabet text, it is unlikely this article is ever going to grow past the one sentence it now consists of -- at least not verifiably. UPDATE: However, I note that Thai football is only recently making a rise: The Sriracha team that the subject is on was only created in 2005, and Thailand only created its Premier League 5 months ago: . With the continuing rise of Thai football and increased English-language coverage, this article could well be expanded in the future. -- Softlavender (talk) 01:50, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.