Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kara Donnellan


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. –  Juliancolton  &#124; Talk 01:48, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Kara Donnellan

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Generally individual notability in team sports is associated with playing in a fully professional league. KD falls short of that threshold. The league for which she will be playing hasn't yet begun (WP:CRYSTAL), nor will it be fully professional. Discussion about Women's AFL seems to show that the level of article creation should be at the team, not the player, level. Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Australian rules football. Cabayi (talk) 19:14, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Cabayi (talk) 19:15, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Australia-related deletion discussions. Cabayi (talk) 19:15, 3 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. StAnselm (talk) 19:55, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Donnellan's notability has been established by extensive media coverage and her participation in the top tier exhibition series of her sport. Add a notability tag to the article if you want but it's only a matter of weeks before this league's players reach you standard of notability. Tigerman2612 (talk) 1:25, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep. Sufficient coverage for GNG. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 01:55, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Fremantle Football Club: I do think this article is a bit WP:TOOSOON as she hasn't played a match yet in the AFL Women's comp, the discussion as mentioned by the nominator did say that marquee players should meet notability once they play a match in the comp. The common practice for AFL players drafted who haven't debuted yet is to redirect to the current squad on the main page or the list of XX players article; as she's a marquee player she will meet notability once she plays a match, the precedent for these type of players (albeit in the men's comp) is to redirect before debuting. Flickerd (talk) 11:28, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep. One of only 16 marquee players signed to the new comp (see here). I think that trying to combat the gender bias that exists in the traditional mainstream media and here as well requires some more lenient applications of the rules. And which part of new national league that's only months away from starting is "unverifiable speculation" that WP:CRYSTAL refers to? The common practice of redirecting is done for later and rookie picks, but rarely for top draft picks, which the marquee players represent.  Everything in this article is verified by RS, but I accept that independence is questionable for most of the refs that cover her in detail, not just a mention, but the club & AFL websites claim to be independent, but few believe that. Applying the letter of the law for the sake of a few weeks/months delay achieves no benefit to anyone. The-Pope (talk) 13:44, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Why are we "trying to combat the gender bias that exists in the traditional mainstream media"? That seems like righting great wrongs to me. StAnselm (talk) 19:05, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Or just using the inherent discretion/judgement call that is found in terms like "significant coverage" to do a tiny thing to help address one of the most frequent criticisms of Wikipedia. The-Pope (talk) 16:17, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Legally speaking AFL Media is indeed independent. Tigerman2612 (talk) 8:38, 5 December 2016 (UTC)


 *  Keep Redirect - Refs in article presently are rubbish (non-independent - all from AFL.com or the club page), yet Gnews search shows plenty of non-trivial, independent hits (several from The West Australian). This is enough to satisfy GNG, and that's pretty much all that matters. Sport-specific guidelines requiring, for example, playing in a "fully professional league" are about the presumption of notability, ie, the presumption that sufficient sources should exist for a player of a certain ilk. KD doesn't need to rely on presumption - she has plenty of decent sources anyway. Any exclusion argument would have to rely on WP:NOT, which I don't think could be reasonably made. Yeti Hunter (talk) 23:29, 5 December 2016 (UTC) - EDIT: Following the comment from Aspirex below regarding usual practice at WP:AFL, best course of action would appear to be redirect to the club page for now. Assuming KD does indeed play a debut match, the page can easily be restored via a simple revert when that happens.--Yeti Hunter (talk) 05:02, 12 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Refs from The West Australia seem to rarely show up high in the google searches, probably because their website is hosted by Yahoo! The-Pope (talk) 16:17, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep - Notability established by independent media coverage. Presumption of notability will also soon be covered by participation in "major amateur league" as per WP:ATHLETE though is also WP:TOOSOON as she is yet to actually debut. Tigerman2612 (talk) 3:17, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep Notable, sufficient sources, and probably specifically historic for women's football.    Aoziwe (talk) 14:16, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete for now In my view, the extent of coverage for uncapped AFLW marquee players has been on par with that of uncapped high-to-mid round AFL draft selections. The AFL project has always taken an absolutely hard line that such players do not get articles until the day they play their first game, regardless of the extent of coverage, and it is contingent on the project to apply its own norms consistently. I've seen many AFL draftee articles deleted for "TOOSOON" on many occasions to ensure this practice is adhered to. To accept a 'keep' decision for this article while satisfying WP:NOTTEMPORARY presupposes that Donnellan would still be forever notable even if she blew out her knee in pre-season training and retired without ever playing an AFLW game. Aspirex (talk) 06:21, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  MBisanz  talk 13:43, 12 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep, although the article isn't great, Donnellan meets WP:GNG, therefore the article should be kept (and improved). ColonialGrid (talk) 09:43, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep, clearly at the top level of her sport and meets the GNG in the absence of a female-specific guideline at WP:NAFL.  IgnorantArmies  (talk)  15:21, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep satisfies WP:GNG. Dan arndt (talk)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.