Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Jr.


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. I'm of the personal opinion that "fully professional" in WP:ATH means something more than simply getting a paycheck, but in any event the consensus here was to delete. I will userfy as requested. Xymmax So let it be written   So let it be done  21:00, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Jr.

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Prodded, but prd removed for meeting ATHLETE. Material pertaining to this criteria was later removed from the article by another editor as unverifiable, so the subject either does not meet ATHLETE or does not meet N because his only notability is being related to another person who is. MSJapan (talk) 18:09, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete per nominator. Nobility is not inherited and no other claim to importance is made.  In fact no other information is present except a link to the subject's father's blog. Drawn Some (talk) 18:18, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep since he's earned money as a basketball player, and therefore passes WP:ATHLETE. Crotchety Old Man (talk) 18:59, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * "Earning money" isn't a criterion of WP:ATHLETE. He hasn't played at a high professional level. Ten Pound Hammer  and his otters • (Many otters • One hammer • HELP) 19:06, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Last I checked, "fully professional" means earning money to play said sport. Looks like this guy plays a sport for money. Crotchety Old Man (talk) 19:28, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * No it doesn't. Semi-pro athletes also earn money, but don't meet ATHLETE because they haven't played in the top level of their sport, so they are not interchangeable terms. MSJapan (talk) 22:19, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't know if you've heard, but there are other professional basketball leagues besides the NBA. Crotchety Old Man (talk) 11:51, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * And in which one of those has he played? Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 19:54, 17 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep – and expand. Yes, I realize that notability is not conferred from father to son.  However, Jr. has received significant – third party – reliable – creditable and verifiable coverage, in significant  quantity, as shown here  to meet the requirements for inclusion here at Wikipedia.  A similar case, as this, would be our inclusion of Billy Carter riding on the coat tails of his brother Jimmy Carter.  Thanks. ShoesssS Talk 19:32, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep There are a lot of articles written in detail about this guy, over a wide range of dates. This is YET ANOTHER example of people attempting to use WP:NOTINHERITED to override WP:N.  This guy clearly has significant coverage in reliable sources and I simply don't see how you could argue otherwise.  "Notinherited" is an essay intended to clarify WP:N, not override it.  It's only appropriate in the cases where significant coverage does not exist--to clarify that having a close relationship to a notable person is not enough to establish notability in the absence of such significant coverage.  Anyone interested in getting to the core of this, I would invite you to join in the discussion on the talk page of NOTINHERITED.  Cazort (talk) 19:53, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey, there's nothing to keep. Did you look at it? Drawn Some (talk) 21:03, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment - Nothing wrong with stubs. Look at any printed encylopedia and 80% of all articles are about 1-2 sentences. ShoesssS Talk 21:58, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, I saw that this is just a stub. Deletion discussions, as I understand them, from WP:Deletion, are to focus on whether the article should exist or not; the current state of the article is irrelevant except in the case of WP:COPYVIO, slander, advertisement, or other material that needs to be deleted from the edit history for legal or practical reasons.  Cazort (talk) 23:16, 14 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Until and unless the people who are voting keep here are willing to include the sources and the claims of notability in the article, the article prima facie violates WP:N and should have been speedy deleted. Playing in a summer pro league doesn't make one notable.  Getting a paycheck doesn't make one notable.  Delete.  Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 22:52, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I think this is a misunderstanding of the deletion process: WP:Deletion reads: "It is especially wasteful to go to deletion review over an unsourced stub when the alternative of creating a sourced article is available." Also, if you look under "Reasons for deletion", you will find that being a stub is not one of them.  We seem to be focusing on notability in this deletion discussion...but the relevant reason to delete is, again from that page, "Articles whose subjects fail to meet the relevant notability guideline".  It is the subject, not the current state of the article, that matters.  Cazort (talk) 23:16, 14 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Living people-related deletion discussions. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 00:01, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * An article about a real person, an organization (e.g. band, club, company, etc., except schools), or web content that does not indicate why its subject is important or significant. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 19:54, 17 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete Insufficient notability to meet guidelines. ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:54, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete unless someone cares to write an actual article with some information.We can have very short articles, provided they say something. No prejudice against reinsert one if they do write one after the AfD has closed. DGG (talk) 04:59, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment – To the closing administrator, if the final decision is delete, please throw a copy on my sub-page and I’ll rewrite and expand over the next couple of weeks. Thanks - ShoesssS Talk 13:53, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete i would guess there are 10-15 basketball leagues that would be considered as the "top" professional level. He hasn't played at the top league in any country anywhere and has not been the subject of any coverage as far as i can see in any reliable sources in any depth beyond the trivial (i.e. "basketball legeng Abdul-Jabbar" has a son of the same name).Bali ultimate (talk) 20:11, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Comment: I added a stub to the article. Is there anyway we can suspend this discussion for some time to give editors time to improve the article? Postcard Cathy (talk) 00:22, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * There's nothing that makes this a permanent deletion. Since there has been no proof nor claim of notability, it's likely to be deleted, but the closing admin can copy it into your User space for improvement.  Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 06:45, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.