Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Karl Messner


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   merge to [[ApologetiX]]. Person meets WP:MUSIC, but currently only for band. Re-creation possible when he either becomes a member of two notable bands or also actually develops a notable solo career. slakr \ talk / 06:56, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Karl Messner

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Delete OR Merge/redirect to ApologetiX. Only real claim to fame is his role in ApologetiX, a band which I'm not sure passes notability in itself as all of its sources consist of links from the official website (maybe someone can help me out on this). Provided that the band does qualify for notability, I don't think Messner does, per WP:BAND's "Note that members of notable bands are redirected to the band's article, not given individual articles, unless they have demonstrated individual notability for activity independent of the band, such as solo releases."

With Messner, the article was written by the subject and some single purpose accounts (although not all of them are). Sources to the article include the subject's myspace, classmates site and ApologetiX's Wikipedia article. The About.com interview only mentions him once. I think the only really reliable source is the thought-quotient interview. CyberGhostface (talk) 21:36, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete Unnotable outside of the band he founded, a short summary of him on the ApologetiX page should be enough for him Lets  drink  Tea  22:13, 19 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Okay, first of all I do realize that the ApologetiX Wikipedia page is a complete disaster, however any band with over 95,000 people in their fan club (http://apologetix.com/fanclub/fanclub.php) surely qualifies as notable. I literally have mountains of material to sort through, everything from interviews to reviews to appearances. Just give me a couple days to get everything assembled & referenced and Karl's page will be a great addition to Wikipedia. When I'm done I'll clean up the ApologetiX page as well, just for good measure. Here's just a sample of the source material that I still need to sift through to get references-

About.com Interview with Karl Messner(different than the one already referenced, this one specifically with Karl) http://christianmusic.about.com/od/interviewsal/a/aaapologetix405.htm

EntertainmentWatch.net interview with Karl Messner http://www.entertainmentwatch.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=13:an-interview-with-karl-messner-of-apologetix&catid=7:music-artist-interviews&Itemid=78

Karl mentioned in Reference.com's ApologetiX Entry http://www.reference.com/browse/ApologetiX

Blogspot interview http://whatsupnews.blogspot.com/2005_04_01_archive.html

American Family Association Journal http://www.afajournal.org/2005/february/2.05apologetix.asp

The Times Democrat Article http://www.thetandd.com/articles/2008/01/11/features/religion/12906978.txt

Christian Music source (APX) http://www.cmspin.com/newsmanager/anmviewer.asp?a=389&z=11

2004 Alternative Christian Musician of the year Christian Music Awards

Karl arranged collaborations with Weird Al's Drummer, Charlie Daniel's fiddle player, and the keyboardist for Three Dog night. Other bands have commented they liked them (Ted Nugent, KISS, Kid Rock)

Howard Stern Played nearly the entire album "Ticked" on the air and his producer called karl to get the band on the show

Mrunincredible (talk) 22:21, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * MergeI think the band is notable enough as I have been able to find information which appears to be reliable outside of the the myspace and band webpages. However, I don't find much mentioned about a solo career. Wperdue (talk) 22:49, 19 March 2009 (UTC)wperdue
 * Official announcement here: http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=445181178&blogId=477778720
 * There is no other info available yet because he only made the announcement on Monday. Look guys, I know that next to the mainstream artists ApologetiX doesn't amount to a hill of beans. But for an independent Christian band they have made quite a name for themselves. They are the only band that does what they do, and they have received a great deal of recognition for it. The fact remains Karl was the lead guitarist and producer for a notable band and he is now branching out into his own territory, and that is enough to qualify him for his own page according to Wikipedia's own guidelines.--Mrunincredible (talk) 22:59, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Keep I'm all for keeping Wikipedia free of riff raff and self promotion spam, but this guy is indeed notable. Christian Music is a major subculture, and Karl is well known in the culture. He wasn't just a member of the band as much as the personality of the band. Many people say they don't really go see the band anymore now that he's gone. As a Web Marketer, I see that google registers hundreds of searches per month consistently over the last year for Karl Messner, and that's significant traffic for a keyword. His Solo album is going to be great. He produced all of ApologetiX work, his voice is known, his mad production skills are known. He will continue to be a significant player in the Christian Music Scene. His work is currently on the air daily on hundreds of radio stations around the world. The song that features his voice most prominently (Scripture) is STILL the band's biggest seller on iTunes, even though that album was released 4 years and four albums ago. The only post-Karl album has been out for about a year and its highest scoring iTunes song is only at #70 (More than a Healing) All that to say Karl isn't notable because of his involvement with ApologetX. It's more accurate to say ApologetiX was only ever notable because of Karl's involvement. The lead singer says as much on their most recent DVD. "Karl's made a lot of my dreams come true" I say Keep. he's a notable player in the industry and still active. Joycell27 (talk) 06:30, 20 March 2009 (UTC) — Joycell27 (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Comment Let the author do his work, then see whether the end result is good enough :) Cheers.  I 'mperator 23:30, 19 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Merge, per my reasoning expressed here. Dan, the CowMan (talk) 21:21, 20 March 2009 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.