Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Karl Ossietz

Karl Ossietz was proposed for deletion. This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was Delete as unverifiable. While User:Pitchka acted in good faith and carefully cited his sources, other users found references which contradicted the findings of the "Eye-Witness Accounts" book. (Based on the evidence available, I believe the content of the 1994 book cited by Pitchka to be derivative of the 1979 book cited by func's anon user below.) The weight of contradicting references makes the factual accuracy of the original source and thus of this article suspect. Should future scholarly studies support the evidence for an individual by this name and in the role of Hitler's top astrologer, this article can be nominated for undeletion. Rossami (talk) 00:37, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I think this is a joke entry. This guy gets only 5 google hits: 4 are Wikipedia-mirrors, and the 5th is in another language. A google for ( "Chambers of the Stars" +Hitler ) turns up nothing. func(talk) 17:06, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Formatting, &/or classifying in bold, of multiple entries done by Jerzy(t) 00:46, 2004 Oct 27 (UTC).


 * KEEP: I started the article on Karl Ossietz because it was an interesting fact. The internet is not the source of all facts in the world. The book I found out about this person is The Permanent Book of The 20th Century: Eye-Witness Accounts of the Moments that Shaped Our Century, edited by Jon E. Lewis, published by Carroll and Graf Publishers, Inc. in 1994. The ISNB 0-7867-0161-7. It was listed under the chapter Part III: Jazz, Slump and Fascism 1919-38 from pages 234-237 under the heading "The Private Life of Adolf Hitler, Berchtesgaden, 1938." Quote: "The author of this account of the German dictator at home was of the maids at his mountain retreat." I still think it's a valid entry. Pitchka 18:09, Oct 22, 2004 (UTC)
 * Comment. OK, I just did a search at amazon and got The Mammoth Book of Eyewitness History 2000, written by the exact same author, Jon E. Lewis. This all seems pretty suspicious to me. There are few men who have been studied as in depth as Hitler. Why is this Mr. Lewis the only guy who knows about Karl Ossietz? Does anyone have an independent source for this? Might Ossietz have an alternate spelling for his name? I just find it hard to believe that there is anything connected with Hitler that would turn up so few google hits. func(talk) 18:58, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Nomination is implicitly a vote for deletion, unless explicitly stated otherwise, so this editor has already voted. --Jerzy(t) 00:46, 2004 Oct 27 (UTC)
 * Comment: The web is not the be-all, end-all source of information, but in this case there seem to be a whole bunch of sites claiming that Karl Ernst Krafft was Hitler's astrologer, and only one (a forum post) naming Karl Ossietz for that role.  SWAdair | Talk  04:08, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Comment: Quoting from above: Quote: "The author of this account of the German dictator at home was of the maids at his mountain retreat. &#8212; nuff said: Pitch(ka) this. &#8212; Bill 14:06, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * The above entry marked as a comment by me. If i call the vote on this one, i will not count it as a vote bcz it is too aggressively subversive to the purpose of this page and the need for clarity about the distinction between Votes for deletion on one hand, and fun and cleverness on the other. IMO, any other admin should respond similarly. --Jerzy(t) 00:46, 2004 Oct 27 (UTC)
 * Actually, Jerzy, you are the one who is being "too aggressively subversive". To ignore a vote for deletion because you don't find it funny (is/would be/will be) an abuse of your adminship, (and marking all obvious commentary as Comments is nothing less than trolling, IMHO).
 * Comment: I placed a note at the talk page for Hitler, hoping for some knowledgable commentary, but no one has responded. I'm not comfortable about this. If he really was an astrologer for Hitler, then I think it should qualify as being notable, but the word of a single author seems problematic, (not everything printed in a book is true). func(talk) 00:06, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Already voted. --Jerzy(t) 00:46, 2004 Oct 27 (UTC)
 * Comment: We shold probably wait, and mark the article as factually disputed, until we get a better idea of whether its real or not.  &mdash; siro  &chi;  o  00:33, Oct 27, 2004 (UTC)
 * Comment: User:Jerzy has a talent for stating the blatently obvious. Isn't the merely obvious enough for him?
 * No, and i'll paraphrase two heroes of info provision at once: "That's 'Mr. Harmless Drudge' to you!" --Jerzy(t) 02:08, 2004 Oct 27 (UTC)
 * Comment: The above is a Comment, and not a Vote.
 * Delete. I checked multiple books on Hitler and none mention a Karl Ossietz, so I have to agree with SWAdair. &#8212;No-One Jones (m) 04:35, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete, No one jones' seems to have confirmed it &mdash; siro  &chi;  o  00:21, Oct 28, 2004 (UTC)
 * Comment: Here's something interesting, from http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=pt&u=http://www.bdcmadeira.org/bdc/pt/Dmes/0303/02.htm&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%2522Carl%2Bvon%2BOssietz%2522%2BHitler%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D
 * The honored ones have the right to refuse the prémios. However, facts had thus only occurred for pressures politics, as in 1937, when Hitler forbade the Germans to receive the Prémio Nobel, therefore he is furious when the Prémio of the Peace of 1935 is granted to a antiNazi journalist, Carl Von Ossietz, who had disclosed the plans private of rearmament of Germany.
 * At Nobel Peace Prize we have as the laureate
 * 1935 Carl von Ossietzky (Germany) pacifist journalist.
 * and at Carl von Ossietzky a bio (on WP over 2 years) that has him imprisoned from the first 2 month's of Hitler's chancellorship. A coincidence of names would be far-fetched, so the nominated article must overcome a presumption of being a joke at best and calculated disinfo at worst. Info confirming at least the Portuguese site's variant version of his name would be a plus in Carl von Ossietzky, and a pretty good final nail in the coffin of the nominated article.
 * --Jerzy(t) 18:11, 2004 Nov 3 (UTC)


 * Comment: An anon responded to my query at Hitler's talk page:


 * I found him mentioned in an Allen Churchill book from 1979 called Eyewitness Adolf Hitler. I believe it was from a letter that this Karl Ossietz was mentioned as Hitler's personal astrologer. Eyewitness

func(talk) 03:17, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like other '/delete' pages is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion or on the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.