Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Karmen Karma


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete.  Sandstein  19:42, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

Karmen Karma

 * – ( View AfD View log )

BLP of a porn actress, does not pass WP:NBIO. Subject has not won any major awards and the majority of sources are not independent. 1292simon (talk) 08:06, 20 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. 1292simon (talk) 08:06, 20 October 2020 (UTC)


 * 1292simon, I do not think you took time to go through the references before nominating this article for deletion. Which of the awards scheme do you refer to as not major? XBIZ Awards or AVN Awards or Inked Awards? Kindly do your checks to avoid this back & forth. You nominated it for deletion yesterday for the use of advertising word of which User:Seraphimblade reverted. Do you have a personal interest of taking down this article? Ajpoundz (talk) 08:21, 20 October 2020 (UTC)


 * The XBIZ and AVN may be major awards, but the subject was merely nominated and did not win the award. Seraphimblade actually suggested that I take this to AfD. No I do not. Cheers, 1292simon (talk) 08:29, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I did take the time to go through the 30 citations. More then half of them cite Adult Film Database to state that Karma appeared in the given film.  The rest are primary sources (mainly interviews), reworked press releases (AVN) or unreliable porn blogs.  The porn awards and nominations didn't meet the "well-known and significant industry award" test when WP:PORNBIO was in effect, and they count for even less now. • Gene93k (talk) 12:40, 20 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep - The entity has a total of 15 nominations at the XBIZ Awards and AVN Awards, has won several Inked Awards Ajpoundz (talk) 08:59, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Michigan-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone  10:52, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone  10:52, 20 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been added to the WikiProject Pornography list of deletions. • Gene93k (talk) 12:21, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sexuality and gender-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 12:22, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sexuality and gender-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 12:22, 20 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete. As I stated above, this performer would not even have passed WP:PORNBIO. Claims of passing WP:BASIC or WP:ENT are not supported by reliable secondary sources.  An independent search for sources yielded some plausible secondary coverage in Inked and non-significant coverage in the Daily Beast.  Not sufficient for general notability. • Gene93k (talk) 12:57, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
 * additional comment: Two citations were added with the edit summary "added credible sources."  They don't help the article since they don't count as independent coverage, one of the key concerns of the nomination.  One is yet another interview, a primary source.  The other is a citation to an Amazon sales link for a book written by the subject .  It verifies that the subject wrote a memoir published by a small-press company.  It is obviously not independent and citing Amazon for a book sold there is generally frowned upon.  What would help the article are WP:RELIABLE references that are independent of the subject and cover her in a non-trivial manner. • Gene93k (talk) 13:41, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes • Gene93k I added some sources I just came across,a close look at the interviews confirm the information in the article are authentic. Also the entity also has an article on the Spanish Wikipedia here - https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karmen_Karma Ajpoundz (talk) 14:11, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Neither of them provide evidence of notability. Promotion was the main concern of the G11 nomination. Notability is the much more important concern in this AfD debate. Other editions of Wikipedia have their own guidelines for notability. In this case, the es.Wikipedia article uses the same low quality citations that fail in en.Wikipedia. • Gene93k (talk) 14:35, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
 * If XBIZ Awards and AVN Awards are considered notable enough to have a Wikipedia profile, then I do not know what else to refer to as notable when the entity has been nominated not once or twice but severally making it pass WP:BIO Ajpoundz (talk) 18:53, 20 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete Even winning avn or xbiz awards are not enough to satisfy notability, so, this person merely being nominated is a slam-dun deletion. The rest is just interviews and adultfilmdatabase.com refs. Zaathras (talk) 21:21, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete a pornographic performer who does not meet our inclusion criteria.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:11, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep. Author of Overcome: A Memoir Of Abuse, Addiction, Sex Work, and Recovery. As well as sources including, Inked - Karmen Karma Talks Life After Porn, and The Pull To Return Back To It. As well as rationale by, above. Right cite (talk) 20:40, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Anyone can write a book and anyone can give an interview. If the book itself is not notable, and the only thing the article is falling on are primary sources, i.e. interviews, that is not sufficient to pass notability requirements. Zaathras (talk) 23:49, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Ajpoundz, this is your second keep vote. Please vote only once per AfD debate. Additional comments are welcome. Just don't tag it as another vote. Notability as an author needs more than just getting a book published. Please see WP:AUTHOR. • Gene93k (talk) 01:53, 22 October 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.