Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Karo Okiomah


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Whilst the keep votes are technically correct that the player passes NFOOTY, the stronger arguments presented here are that the presumption of GNG that this provides is incorrect in this case. No sources indicating sufficient coverage to satisfy GNG have been presented. Given the player is now retired it seems unlikely this situation will change in the future. There is consensus through AfD that where players only barely pass NFOOTY and have retired that they need to clearly show GNG. This is not the case here. Fenix down (talk) 08:50, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

Karo Okiomah

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

29-year-old player had 3 pro appearances for 2nd-tier team back in 2012 (SW); barely meets NFOOTY. He was named Big South Conference Player of the Year and third-team All-American; not sure if that's enough for ANYBIO #1. There is no independent SIGCOV that I can find. From his college days, his university website has routine write-ups about his draft and signing, a bio on the college website, and he's mentioned in the head coach's bio. Brief mention in this game report. Doesn't appear to meet GNG, barely meets NFOOTY, I'd argue doesn't meet ANYBIO #1. Should be deleted. Leviv&thinsp;ich 01:07, 9 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Leviv&thinsp;ich 01:08, 9 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. Leviv&thinsp;ich 01:08, 9 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. Leviv&thinsp;ich 01:08, 9 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions. Leviv&thinsp;ich 01:08, 9 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of North Carolina-related deletion discussions. Leviv&thinsp;ich 01:08, 9 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Leviv&thinsp;ich 01:12, 9 March 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom.John Pack Lambert (talk) 01:15, 9 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep – Rochester Rhinos were a fully professional club during his appearances for the team, therefore he meets NFOOTY guidlines. UncleTupelo1 (talk) 12:52, 9 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete. (Nom consulted me prior to nomination) NFOOTY merely creates a presumption of notability. In this case it is clear we do not have SIGCOV, and not do we expect any future coverage here. Subject here played college (more coverage actually) and then a few gamees in the lower rungs of the US minor leagues (pro in terms of play, but not competitive and hardly covered by anyone - the almost sole purpose of these minor leagues is player farming). Has since retired. Absent sourcing establishing SIGCOV, this is a clear delete.Icewhiz (talk) 18:07, 9 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment Are we able to establish the arbitrary number of games required to have played in the 2nd division of professional soccer in the United States & Canada that allows you to meet NFOOTY requirements? One, Ten, Twenty Five? I'd also take issue that the league is solely a farm league. UncleTupelo1 (talk) 23:52, 9 March 2019 (UTC)
 * This guy was drafted by a MLS team in 2012. He was placed in an associated minor league team where he made a total of 2 appearances (for 122 minutes). Hasn't been heard from since. Unlike other countries, the US minor league system is almost solely for farming purposes - as other sports in North American - Major League Soccer has no Promotion and relegation. The minor league teams bounce between minor leagues and the minor leagues themselves change according to farming requirements. In other American sports - e.g. the much more popular WP:BASEBALL/N (with an extensive minor league system) and WP:NHOCKEY (also has an elaborate minor league system) accord no notability at all to minor leagues (but do for college play in some cases). Can we set a numeric bar? I'm not sure. What I am fairly certain is that this particular individual simply doesn't have substantial coverage sufficient for GNG - nor is he likely to have such coverage - AFAICT he hasn't done any football since 2013. Icewhiz (talk) 08:25, 10 March 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete per prior consensus (see Articles for deletion/Abdoulaye Sanogo among others) that a minimal amount of play in a fully-pro league does not meet WP:NFOOTBALL when the article comprehensively fails WP:GNG. I can't find any significant coverage at all. Jogurney (talk) 20:57, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep Meets NFOOTY by plying in an FPL. Getting into "minutes played" as a reason to delete discriminates against modern day players that Soccerway actually bother to keep stats for. Dougal18 (talk) 22:29, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
 * It's not discrimination to require significant coverage. This footballer is simply not notable based on a career highlight of two or three appearances in a fully-pro league. If someone can identify some non-routine coverage in reliable sources I'll gladly reconsider. Jogurney (talk) 23:55, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep - meets WP:NFOOTBALL; needs improving, not deleting. GiantSnowman 11:52, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Absent significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject - which are lacking here (failing WP:GNG) - such an improvement is unlikely - impossible even given sourcing quality required for a WP:BLP. Keep by NFOOTY (merely presumption of GNG) means nothing for borderline NFOOTY players who are being challenged for not having anything approaching SIGCOV. Show us the sources, if you want it kept. At least 3-4 high quality in-depth sources. Icewhiz (talk) 12:18, 11 March 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.