Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Karolina (painter)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. RL0919 (talk) 13:55, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

Karolina (painter)

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This biographical puff piece about an unremarkable Greece-based artist qualifies for speedy deletion under CSD X2, but speedy deletion was declined on the rather curious basis that it's been cleaned up by two editors, although not, as of the time of nomination, into comprehensible English. I don't see what's notable about this person and I don't see what's reliable about the sources. —S Marshall T/C 01:27, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Artists-related deletion discussions. —S Marshall T/C 01:27, 9 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete the coverage seems to be in Mykonos guidebooks and various blogs. It does not amount to anything even approaching WP:ARTIST. From what I read, she hangs out in the harbour in Mykonos painting landscapes and selling them to tourists, so none of the traditional artist notability indicators apply (major exhibitions, critical commentary, awards, etc). I could not actually find one exhibition or independent review of her work, so using our usual artist notability criteria is pointless.
 * GNG-wise, it is very weak. The coverage is mostly trivial or in unimportant publications.
 * Example coverage from the cited source greecetraveller.com (a blog) reads: At the top of Matoyianni Street, in front of the Kessaris jewelry store, on summer evenings you may find naïf painter Carolina Wells (though she’s often down on the harbor when it’s not windy). Her paintings, which have got international acclaim of late, but have been dear to locals for decades, sell like hotcakes for around 100 Euros apiece.


 * Overall, I think she is mostly a sort of local celebrity. I don't think we need to cover local celebrities in the absence of good independent in-depth coverage; the guidebooks have that sort of thing covered.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 05:39, 9 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete - Reading the story about her, it explains that Karolina sells four types of paintings: the Blue and White Painting, the Red Painting, the Restaurant Painting, and the Red Boat Painting. The Blue and White Painting sells the best, but painting all that blue is a lot of work. It's a story, so you have to allow some leeway for artistic license, but I think it's indicative of what we're discussing here. Curiocurio (talk) 16:00, 9 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep Just a fact: The artist is not Greek as the proposer wrote, she is an American. As for notability: She has coverage in Greek national press (Downtown magazine) and main TV channel (Skai TV, "one of the largest media groups in the country" according to the relevant article). She has been an inspiration for a short story by Peter Selgin as well as for a poem from artists which are not local to Mykonos, she is mentioned in travel guides. As far as I am concerned these are enough for a person to be considered notable. --FocalPoint (talk) 19:26, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
 * The Downtown Magazine piece is quoted in the article as "did you see the Karolines' which were hung by the entrance? And, of course, I have now learned to recognize the masterpieces of the great painter of the island..." It is trivial coverage. Being the subject of fiction or a poem is not particularly important either. What counts is in-depth SIGCOV, which is missing here.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 19:36, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
 * My apologies, I should have written "Greece-based" rather than "Greek".—S Marshall T/C 19:42, 9 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete We cannot be entertaining the idea that we can uses sources like karolinasmykonos.com, which is operated by the subject's daughter, who writes "Carol Wells was unique from the beginning of her life. Born on Christmas day in 1939 into the highest strata of Boston society, she was blessed was(sic!) talent, intellect, beauty, and independence." No. Additional comments:  isn't used as a source for anything except her name and education and is written by her daughter. Not an independent, reliable source  is a travel guide, not accessible online, the nearest library with a copy is more than 6000 kilometers away.  is the website of a travel agent, not an independent, reliable source  is a dead link  lists a number of local shopkeepers (none of whom appear to be notable BTW)and makes the claim that her paintings have got international acclaim of late, but provides no evidence of such acclaim or even an indication of what form it takes: exhibitions, awards?  is a video on the website of Skai Group which is cited to support the claim that "The life of Karolina has been presented on Greek television". I couldn't get it to run. It seems a bit odd to mention that she's the subject of a documentary, but not use that documentary as a source for the content of the article, and instead highlight the fact that a source exists,even though we don't get to find out what it says.  is fiction, and definitely not a reliable source is a poem by Zen Cowboy Poet & Freelance Philosopher Neil Meili, whose relevance to me is unclear. In summary, the sources are so poor that it is no possible to verify anything. This is not just a failure to meet the requirements of WP:GNG, it fails WP:V Vexations (talk) 22:48, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

Additional coverage: --FocalPoint (talk) 19:55, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Exhibition in Mykonos 21 - 31 October 2019
 * Same exhibition in Athens, so moving out of local to national level
 * Link one (koinignomi.gr) is a list of artists in a show: "Under the title "Contemporary Mykonos Painters", they present their works, along with the work to be printed in the diary, by Armacola Georgina, Lydia Venieris, Veronis Petros, Galatis Giannis, Karolina Woellipi..."
 * Link two is a derivative of the first article, with her name listed but no commentary. So both sources are trivial coverage. ThatMontrealIP (talk) 20:01, 9 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete - Subject of article does not meet notability criteria, nor are there reliable sources in the article or online after a search. Netherzone (talk) 20:43, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 04:36, 11 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Visual arts-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 04:36, 11 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Greece-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 04:37, 11 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep Appears to be notable, and much written about, as local personality/artist, although missing the grade for notability as an artist as such. Potential to expand from the Greek wiki article (I don't read Greek, but have linked with an "expand" tag). Pam  D  12:08, 11 December 2019 (UTC)
 * could you point to two or three reliable sources that have more than a paragraph on her? I checked the Greek article and it has no RS that can be verified-- just blogs and the like. ThatMontrealIP (talk) 15:34, 11 December 2019 (UTC)
 * User:PamD has expressed it better than I did. Indeed, the notability of Karolina is as local personality/artist, not for notability as an artist as such. I have selected both for the Greek and the English articles easily accessible material. I have more references to add, however, they are not on line and I will add them during the next 6-7 days. --FocalPoint (talk) 21:44, 11 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Yeah that is the point: she might be locally notable via trivial coverage in travel magazines for selling paintings at the wharf.... but we are a global encyclopedia.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 22:06, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Allowing time for User:FocalPoint to add the offline sources they found to the article.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, &mdash; Coffee //  have a ☕️ //  beans  // 05:23, 16 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment - Refs: 1. primary source (artists website) does not contribute to notability; 2. Unverifiable; 3. Non-reliable source, blurb in "Hideaways Aficiando Club" travel blog; 4. Unverifiable; 5. Unverifiable; 6. Non-reliable source - blurb in travel blog "Elizabeth Boleman-Herring's Greece"; 7. Unverifiable; 8. Travel Blog entry - human interest story; 8. Non-reliable source - mention in a poem. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Netherzone  (talk • contribs) 18:35, 18 December 2019 (UCD) (UTC) Netherzone (talk) 02:46, 21 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete Not in-depth coverage. She may be a local celebrity (a hint for notability), but this not supported by third-party reliable sources. ǁ ǁǁ ǁ Chalk19 (talk) 13:18, 20 December 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.