Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kartchin (Hasidic dynasty)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result of the nomination was delete. Mailer Diablo 03:49, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Kartchin (Hasidic dynasty)
Delete. This was nominated for CSD because "This is no such Group in Chassidic Judiasm; hoax" - CSD was obviously declined. The allegation is, basically, that this is a POV fork by a breakaway splinter sect from Bobov. And how do I know this? JJ, the Hasidic CSD nominator, told me, and I trust him. I have no independent way of confirming this. As a matter of fact, both the article and the AfD nomination constitute OR - there are simply no sources to be had. Google will show nothing to obscure splinter Hasidic groups, and all research is pointless - it could be as little as a dozen dudes in a basement synagogue calling themselves a movement. The article should be deleted because, at the very least, there is no way to confirm its content - it's impossible to make it meet WP:V. - CrazyRussian talk/email 15:42, 5 July 2006 (UTC)


 * see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jfdwolff/Archive_14 as well. this is a hoax. JJ211219 15:45, 5 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Judaism-related deletions.  - CrazyRussian talk/email 15:44, 5 July 2006 (UTC)


 * see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jfdwolff/Archive_14#Bobover_Fights

The derogatory-intended nickname is actually usually used by followers of the Bobover Rebbe of 48 for the bobover rebbe of 45th. so therefore someone made a hoax-which-plays-upon-a-hoax and titled the 48 rebbe with the Kartchin Moniker...

I am very familiar with the chassidic world and I am 10000% confident of this hoax. it's not even a splinter group.. its like some people calling the satmar rebbe the flintsone rebbe and that getting a "NPOV" wikipage....

JJ211219 15:51, 5 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Comment. I don't know what to do about this. We need more information. I do not understand in what way 'Kartchin' is a derogatory nickname. It is the name of a Polish (?) town and there does/did apparently exist a chassidus by that name. Just as that we have Zenta which is affiliated with Satmar. And Siget. Without independent and verifiable information, what can I say? --Daniel575 16:13, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Look for 'Kartshin', also. --Daniel575 21:12, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Without independent and verifiable information, what can anyone say! But I think you guys should be extra careful to translate Hebrew words on this page. Chassidus = Hasidic dynasty. This ain't Jewpedia lol - CrazyRussian talk/email 16:16, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Avodas Hashem, Taharah and Kedusha are not valid reasons for delete, but we have no way of knowing. But what is vitally important is that Kartchin returns this page and very little else. I agree this is a hoax spilling over from the Halberstam/Unger dispute in the Bobov succession, and agree this should be 'deleted. JFW | T@lk  16:17, 5 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Delete Either it is a hoax or it is non-notable. 100 followers in Borough Park is not enough for a wikipedia article.  Jon513 16:30, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete appears to be a hoax, and I agree with above opinion. If this was real then it just appears to be a non-notable group. Yank  sox  03:25, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete Looking at all the above comments, shows how helpless Wikipedians are. Someone can be 10,000 percent sure; but still Wikipedians aren't convinced; they need more information. It seems to me that we have to have a Chelemer Asifah (a meeting of the wise men of Chelem) to determine if "Kartchin" is an entity. On a serious tone; how do you prove a negative? I'll try. Question number 1: Are there Kartchiner Chassidim? The answer is absolutely no. Question number 2: Is there a Kartchiner Rebbe? The answer is absolutely no. (If you want; you can write an article of the Kartchiner Rebbe who passed away over a hundred years ago). This whole thing reminds me of the newspaper heading "The President denies hitting his wife". The story goes that a news reporter asked the President if he hit his wife? for which the President answered "no"; now go prove that. Last for all who want to know how the "Kartchin hoax" (please don't make an article with this name) came to pass; I talk about it on the Bobov talk pages; if you would care to read. Issac 16:36, 6 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Delete per JJ211219 and Jon513 --Baruch ben Alexander - ☠☢☣ 10:05, 10 July 2006 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.