Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Katherine Stenholm


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. Nom has not refuted recent keep !votes, others previously expressing delete opinions haven't either (although one editor has made no recent contributions and the other is now blocked). Only post-Arxiloxos sources !vote is qualified as a "weak" delete. (non-admin closure) -- Trevj (talk) 15:42, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Katherine Stenholm

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Does not appear to be notable, either as a film director (per WP:FILMMAKER, no major work of note) or as the creator of an organization (Unusual Films is not notable). Reliance of the article on sources connected to her employer (Bob Jones University) adds to the case for non-notability and deletion. —Eustress talk 19:01, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I've added more non-BJU references. The fact that Stenholm is a pioneer female director is in itself enough to make her notable.--John Foxe (talk) 20:23, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
 * "Pioneer" according to who? —Eustress talk 20:31, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Turner, historian of BJU: "She became one of only a handful of women in the United States to direct feature films and perhaps the first Christian woman ever to do so." (306) I stand corrected if you can come up with a WP:RS that says the contrary.--John Foxe (talk) 21:31, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't think Turner is a reliable source since he's not independent. —Eustress talk 01:02, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
 * We sometimes have to take what we can get in the way of sources for living people, and you've presented no evidence that Turner's wrong.--John Foxe (talk) 13:50, 11 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete - the main problem is that it doesn't seem like any of the films for which she is a director seems notable enough for a mention in an independent source. Even IMDB bio can't identify which of her films is more notable than the others. Alice Guy-Blaché was a christian woman director from the silent age, and Lois Weber was from "a devout middle class Christian family of Pennsylvania Dutch ancestry" directed during the so-called Golden Age. So the claim that she "may be the first christian women ever to do so" is clearly uninformed puffing --Symes (talk) 16:09, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Also Dorothy Arzner seems to have been Christian and directed feature films before Stenholm (source Judith Mayne, Directed by Dorothy Arzner, Indiana University Press, 1994, p 85: describes her interest in Christian Science, role in Religion in Science Foundation, and general spirituality). This is anyway irrelevant, as perhaps the first Christian American female film director is not a major claim to fame.  Did any of her films receive a wide theatrical release or any coverage in the mainstream press?  There's currently no evidence of independent sources (i.e. not by Stenholm or her employer) covering her in detail: we need reviews of films, articles or books giving her more than a sentence, etc. --Colapeninsula (talk) 16:22, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 23:13, 11 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:35, 17 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep. I can understand the skepticism expressed above about this biography, especially in light of some puffy language (e.g., I agree that "first Christian woman director" is both unsupportable and inherently meaningless). But there are independent sources out there, per GBooks and GNews.  Much of this material is old, and paywalls get in the way, as always, but GBooks snippets indicate that she has been discussed in a variety of nonreligious publications; a couple of examples are American Cinematographer and Women who make movies.  Though sketchy, these sources seem sufficient to establish that she is a notable figure in the history of religious film in the U.S.  (And, at a minimum, this content could be merged to and used at  Bob Jones University.) --Arxiloxos (talk) 16:59, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Borderline keep, in light of independent sources cited by Arxiloxos. There's also this, for what it's worth. There are a couple of google news hits with the married name "Mrs Gilbert Stenholm", and one or two more with "Mrs Stenholm"+director. Nothing major, but enough to indicate that she had some (minor) notability in her (pre-internet) time. Clearly not the first Christian woman to direct films (except perhaps in some idiosyncratic definition of "Christian" in use at BJU), but notable enough for our purposes. --Andreas Philopater (talk) 21:02, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Weak Delete I still don't see that any of the films or information on this director seems notable enough for a mention in an independent source.  However, the improvement made recently have made it somewhat better.--ARTEST4ECHO (talk/contribs) 14:57, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.