Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kathy Chitty (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. -- Cirt (talk) 03:49, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Kathy Chitty
AfDs for this article: 
 * – ( View AfD View log )

Unnotable person.

It's instructive in my opinion to compare this article to Barbara Bakhmetev. (Bakhmetev was Mikhail Lermontov's muse and inspiration, as Chitty is claimed to be Paul Simon's.) I translated Bakhmetev'a article, so I'm not averse to articles about literary muses. But in my opinion Barbara Bakhmetev is marginally notable -- notable enough to have an article, but not inarguably so. Chitty falls far below this standard.

Let's say that Lermontov and Simon are very roughly comparable -- both top-level artists in terms of both artistic quality and fame, just a bit below the very pinnacle but still very notable. (Simon writes mostly songs, so he puts out less quantity than Lermontov, and more importantly does not have the freedom to develop really detailed characterizations -- which I think is an important point, although not in and of itself a deal-breaker for Chitty.)

Well, Lermontov anguished over Bakhmetev his whole life and not only wrote much poetry (and made paintings) about her but also based a major character in the seminal novel "A Hero of Our Time" on her as well as (in part) characters in other works. In contrast, Simon had a short affair (about 1.5 years) with Chitty such as young men have, moved on and married three other people, and wrote one song about her ("Kathy's Song") which was an album track and not a hit song or otherwise notable.

He mentioned her briefly in three other (more important) songs, but only in passing.
 * The reference in "America simply uses the name "Kathy" as a name -- the pair was never together in America and the events described could not have involved Chitty.
 * Another song has the throwaway line "It was 1964. I was living in London with the girl from the summer before" which hardly bespeaks a profound influence.
 * The reference in "Homeward Bound" (the refs are off-line so I'm taking on faith that statement that it's "widely believed that this song is also about Chitty") is slightly more developed, although the song is mainly about the touring rather than Chitty and the joys of home life.

It's not enough. In addition, there is a BLP concern in that according to the article "Kathy was quite shy and wanted no part of the success and fame that awaited Simon" so one can assume that she'd not be happy to be here and if it's a marginal call we should decide in favor of Chitty's privacy.

(Incidentally and for another comparison, Articles for deletion/Echo Star Helstrom. And that's Bob Dylan and (possibly) the Girl From The North Country.) Herostratus (talk) 02:56, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions.  — • Gene93k (talk) 19:14, 12 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:35, 18 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete Though I understand the reasons for retention set out in the earlier AfD debate, I am persuaded by Herostratus. Yes, she was an important part of Paul Simon's life for a period, but notability is not inherited. She is referred to, obliquely, in some of his songs. People have referred to her in biographies of Paul Simon, but she was not part of the making of his music so far as I can tell. There is no indication of what has happened in the rest of her life, so probably WP:EVENT. Not independently notable, part of the Paul Simon story, and she should not have her own biography in Wikipedia. --AJHingston (talk) 21:11, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.