Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kaveh Rezaei


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. JForget 22:07, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Kaveh Rezaei

 * – (View AfD) (View log)

Contested PROD. I believe this player fails WP:ATHLETE (as he hasn't "competed at the fully professional level of a sport", and youth caps do not confer notability) and WP:GNG (as he hasn't "received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject"). GiantSnowman 18:57, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football related deletions. GiantSnowman 18:58, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Could you please expand on why you believe that he fails the general notability guideline? I find it difficult to believe that you could have ascertained that in the eight minutes between my removal of the prod template and your addition of the AfD template. Phil Bridger (talk) 19:00, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * You have added three sources - one which mentions him in passing, and another which is in Persian but which is of such short length that I doubt its significance. A third is also in Persian, from the context looks to be an interview with the player, and also looks too short to be significant. GiantSnowman 19:03, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * There are plenty more potential sources avaliable: . Let's see if we can someone with a better knowledge of Persian than I have involved. Phil Bridger (talk) 19:34, 30 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Iran-related deletion discussions.  —Phil Bridger (talk) 19:34, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Weak delete. He fails WP:ATHLETE, since he is only on the academy team of Foolad.  Generally speaking, until he earns a cap for the first team (which is a notable team in a notable league) he remains non-notable.   Cocytus   [»talk«]  19:55, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete - If he really is the next Ali Daei then he should make an appearance soon and the page can be recreated then. Most of the sources just give him a passing mention and there's the typical "wonderkid" coverage. If he doesn't make an appearance soon then he isn't that notable, simple. Spiderone  19:58, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep. Putting WP:ATHLETE and WP:GNG to one side we still have WP:ANYBIO, which says that a subject who "has received a notable award or honor" is notable. Rezaei received the Golden Boot award at a continent-wide tournament in the continent that contains 60% of the world's population. It seems that the usual suspects from WikiProject Football are coming in with the usual wikilawyering claims that someone who has played a minute of a game in the English League 2 is notable but an Asian player who received the continent's top award for his age group isn't. Can't we approach this with a bit of balance? Phil Bridger (talk) 20:10, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment: I don't know if you're referring to me as a "usual suspect" that comes and engages in Wikilawyering but I only voted weak delete. I can see your point about the award.  I'm currently on the fence as to whether or not I consider that the Golden Boot from this particular competition is notable enough.  I may well change my vote.  Let's all remember to assume good faith.   Cocytus   [»talk«]  20:26, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment. Sorry, I didn't word that too well, and didn't mean to include you, but I think it should be taken into account in weighing up the arguments that User:GiantSnowman and User:Spiderone have a record of regularly arguing from the letter of WP:ATHLETE rather than the spirit of all of the notability guidelines taken together, unless there is a British or Northern Irish player involved, and even more so when it is a non-European player. That also applies to several other editors who pop up at every discussion that is notified to WikiProject Football. I'm not failing to assume good faith, but merely pointing out why I think that these editors are mistaken in their good-faith approach to articles about footballers. Phil Bridger (talk) 21:05, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Firstly, I would second Cocytus' reminder to assume good faith. You have no knowledge of my, or anyone else's, !voting habits in deletion discussions, so please don't comment any further about them. I also don't like the accusations of pro-British bias. Please take a look at my list of articles created to see that I do, in fact, edit every aspect of world football. Secondly, winning an award at a youth tournament is, in my opinion, certainly not enough to count as "notable" under the WP:ANYBIO guideline. And the reason we use WP:ATHLETE as a primary guideline is purely because the person we are discussing is an athlete, and the crux of the matter is that an athlete who hasn't yet competed at a high enough level isn't an athlete, and therefore isn't notable. Not only does he fail ATHLETE, he also fails general notability guidelines, which I have noted in my nomination. Regards, GiantSnowman 21:13, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually I do have knowledge of your voting habits at AfD: I have read just about every AfD discussion that has taken place over the last year or two. Phil Bridger (talk) 21:16, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * If that's the case then you will be fully aware that I don't just vote "Delete, fails ATHLETE" on every AfD I discuss as you earlier implied. I take each article on a case by case basis. GiantSnowman 21:22, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok. let's get back to the subject in hand. There are nearly 4 billion people in Asia. It's a reasonable assumption that about 2% of these are in Kaveh Rezaei's year group, so he was the top goalscorer at the top tournament for which about 80 million people are eligible. Can you really, hand on heart, say that you wouldn't automatically accept the top goalscorer in the Scottish Premier League as being notable, even though he has only had to compete with about 5 million people to get that honour? And, please, answer on the basis of the spirit of our guidelines, rather than the letter of WP:ATHLETE. Phil Bridger (talk) 21:48, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * But 80million people didn't take part in the tournament, 368 did - quite a big difference. And going on your logic, if someone was to hold an award for 'Giantest Snowman', which all 6 billion people in the world are eligible for, and I won, would I then be notable enough for Wikipedia? GiantSnowman 21:55, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually every 16-year-old who plays football in Asia took part in the competition to get that award - the 368 are just the ones who got to the final stages. Phil Bridger (talk) 22:00, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually that's not quite true - the article states "He won the golden boot at the AFC U-16 Championship 2008 in which he scored 6 goals" - his award was for the final tournament only. GiantSnowman 22:03, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Remember that we are talking about under 16s. How many people show lots of promise at this stage and then fail to make it into professional football? Quite a few I'd think. I was a promising badminton player when I was 12 but I never turned pro and so I fail WP:ATHLETE. Spiderone  22:06, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, and when I was a wee bairn I won awards at tennis and squash...doesn't mean I'm worthy of an article, sob. GiantSnowman 22:08, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * But were they continent-wide awards? Phil Bridger (talk) 22:27, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * No, but they were awards with more than 368 eligible people...GiantSnowman 22:33, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * More than the 368 best players out of a pool of 80 million? Phil Bridger (talk) 22:43, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Out of 6 billion :) - oh, and the 80 million figure is false I would say - Asia has a population of 3.879billion, of which probably 2% MAX would be aged 15 or 16 & therefore eligible; that figure would then be more than halved again (gender divide), giving a pool of roughly 35 million I would estimate. GiantSnowman 22:54, 30 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete: In much agreement with Cocytus. Until he actually plays a game for a the real team (it's a level 1 league, easily counting in any global region) WP:ATHLETE and the particular notability of the Wikipedia Football Project are't met. Unless he has a big-name promotional deal or other extremely special circumstances, this does have to go for now. ♪ daTheisen(talk) 08:59, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Comment: I think we could userfy this probably, since in my opinion this is a pretty borderline case. While I understand that Wikipedia is not a crystal ball, I think that this should be userfied in the likelihood that he crosses the threshold. Just my two cents. Cocytus  [»talk«]  15:33, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * If anyone wants to hold on to the thing and have any regular new sources for these things, sounds good, and I'll agree this is in some odd area since we'd need a very specific news item mentioning a promotion or one at least signed for I get the feeling that would be incredibly hard to find. What's in the article now is technically not factual but it also isn't completely wrong. I'm leaving myself on delete but I'd always rather an article be saved if possible. ♪ daTheisen(talk) 17:46, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * What in the article do you consider to be "technically not factual"? Phil Bridger (talk) 23:37, 1 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete, being a top goalscorer in a Confederational youth tournament isn't really notable to pass WP:ANYBIO, especially at under-16 level. There are still six or seven tiers of youth levels above. I don't think that youth players in a Confed tournament recieving MVP/team of the tournament/golden boot awards should be deemed notable as they're not widely covered in the media. Most of the references would appear to fail WP:NTEMP and not pass solely on WP:GNG. --Jimbo[online] 20:47, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.