Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kayden Boche


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. RL0919 (talk) 23:26, 12 June 2019 (UTC)

Kayden Boche

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )


 * Delete - No meaningful coverage, no high quality sources. About sources : only database entries and self-published mentions. About Dior Addict ad : was not even the main model (seen during 2 seconds in screen - see the ad here : https://kaydenboche.com/kayden-boche-daphne-groeneveld-dior-addict-tv-commercial/). About citation on Femme Actuelle Magazine : actually, this is a blog under the umbrella of Femme Actuelle, not a print publication. And it's more like a ad. About "Oh ! Oh !" and co : not a notable composition, unfortunately. No broadcast on major national radio stations across Europe, not even in France. About 11.8 million streams : i'm sorry, but i have a big, big, doubt about it. Xxxxx (talk) 14:55, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Speedy Keep. Clearly meets WP:Notability guidelines. Article created in 2010. Subject appeared in international Dior TV commercials and haute couture fashion shows, produced / directed international music releases and videos for French Star Academy finalist Jérémy Amelin, 90210 TV actress Jessica Lowndes, and more. Subject and credits are verified through ISNI, VIAF and WorldCat identifiers (independent reliable sources). Article includes references to credits for each appearance in both Dior TV commercials (IMDb credits listed on separate pages for each commercial, plus the commercial itself on YouTube ), citation on Femme Actuelle Magazine's website (France's biggest weekly magazine - circulation 500,000 copies), Models.com, iTunes archives  for each music release, official record label website credits for each record (11.8 million streams ) and music video release , matching MusicBrainz and Discogs credits   (each Discogs credit includes a scanned physical copy of each CD single back cover crediting his name), matching credits on Jérémy Amelin's official YouTube channel both as record producer and music video director , citation during a Jérémy Amelin national TV interview , citation on PureBreak Magazine's website (Webedia/FIMALAC/AlloCiné Group), etc, etc. Subject's name is singular enough to Google search (non-public figures do not generate hundreds of thousands of search results in their name). Overall, the article does contain sufficient reliable and verifiable independent secondary sources (ISNI, VIAF, WorldCat, magazines, iTunes, record label, Jessica Lowndes, Jérémy Amelin, etc). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2a01:e35:8be2:6d00:d41e:411a:25a0:20e7 (talk • contribs) 2019-06-05T18:41:40 (UTC)  — 2a01:e35:8be2:6d00:d41e:411a:25a0:20e7 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.


 * User:2a01:e35:8be2:6d00:d41e:411a:25a0:20e7 has been blocked. Msnicki (talk) 13:38, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of France-related deletion discussions.  94rain  Talk 15:09, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions.  94rain  Talk 15:09, 5 June 2019 (UTC)


 * Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Articles for deletion/Log/2019 June 5.  —cyberbot I   Talk to my owner :Online 19:10, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete - No meaningful coverage through eight pages of google search, or through news search. Such mentions as there are, for example the Femme actuelle 'article', are less than trivial. The entire article is 41 words of which 6 are devoted to the subject. Or the 'jeuxactu' article which allots him 6 words (and uses the expression 'houlotte' rather than 'réalisateur' — perhaps someone can advise if there is significance to the terminology).


 * The subject does not meet WP:COMPOSER, WP:MUSICBIO, WP:ENT as the works identified are all non-notable, e.g. co-producing a single that did not chart, or one that may never have been released for sale (Sandcastle). I don't think the subject meets any of the general notability criteria.


 * FYI, imdb, discogs, musicbrainz, etc… are not considered reliable sources (with some exceptions). More details can be found at WP:CITEIMDB and WP:ELP. Some asides: Why are all the citations from within the article copied into the AfD? Why is text from the lede lifted from imdb? The article makes completely unsupported claims (e.g. his occupation being film director and cinematographer) which should be supported or removed promptly. Jessica Lowndes is presented as the 'artist' on Undone but it should be Jérémy Amelin as she provided backup vocals on his song. ogenstein (talk) 22:49, 5 June 2019 (UTC)


 * Speedy Keep. Clearly meets WP:COMPOSER (one criteria required : "has credit for writing or co-writing either lyrics or music for a notable composition", which is the subject's work case) and clearly meets WP:MUSICBIO (one critera required out of 2 clearly met : "has been placed in rotation nationally by a major radio or music television network" and "inclusion on a notable compilation album", which are both the subject's work case). Since when the subject having his largely credited co-written composition broadcast on major national radio stations across Europe , charting on DJ charts , included in major national radio station compilations , and hitting 11.8 million streams for the same record release is deemed not notable ? (also note that Spotify does not publish charts as Billboard does, streaming numbers are only available through the Spotify mobile/desktop app or through record labels if they deem to publish numbers - which the record label did, source listed). Not even mentioning that the record release did get national magazine coverage prior to and upon release (not going to list them all. I'm not Google Search, do your homework).


 * - Unsupported claims of being a director ? Since when a subject having his largely credited (by independent secondary sources such as leading national magazines, the artist or the record label themselves) directed music video broadcast on a major national TV channel is deemed not notable or insufficient to be a legitimate director ?


 * - User distorted the magazine excerpt not even understanding what "sous la houlette de" means in French, which is "under the direction of" (as easy as Google Translate). This magazine reference (secondary source) confirms yet again the subject is notable as a director.


 * - Does meet WP:ENT (one critera required out of 2 clearly met : "has had significant roles in multiple notable productions" and "has a large fan base", which are both the subject's case). Since when co-starring in two internationally broadcast Dior TV commercials and gathering an audience of 175,000 across Facebook, Twitter, Instagram is deemed insignificant or not large enough ?


 * - Whether WP:COMPOSER, WP:MUSICBIO or WP:ENT, one of the required criterias is each time met. Sure, it does require a bit of search and probably adding extra sources (such as those listed here). However, randomly mass-flagging pages for deletion when the initiator doesn't provide solid arguments or doesn't do basic searches is NOT the solution regardless of the subject. It should be handled the proper cautious way : requiring additional sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2a01:e35:8be2:6d00:d41e:411a:25a0:20e7 (talk • contribs) 2019-06-05T18:41:40 (UTC)


 * While these works verifiably exist, at issue is his notability. Neither the provided sources nor any I could discover on my own suggest that this is the case (primarily being database entries, self-published or trivial mentions). I don't think I distorted the question of 'Film Director'. I asked for clarification of the significance of a term which is not used for the listed occupation and he has neither directed any films, nor served as a cinematographer on any. As this is a WP:BLP, unsupported claims should be removed promptly. That was an aside however with the purpose of improving the article and not related to my !vote. ogenstein (talk) 02:18, 6 June 2019 (UTC)


 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 23:03, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fashion-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 23:04, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 23:04, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 23:04, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sexuality and gender-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 23:05, 5 June 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete. Lacks the multiple reliable independent secondary sources required by WP:GNG to establish notability. As ogenstein correctly points out, blogs and user-generated wikipages do not count.  Msnicki (talk) 23:12, 5 June 2019 (UTC)


 * Speedy Keep. Clearly meets WP:COMPOSER, WP:MUSICBIO and WP:ENT. Before further commenting, please READ the entire response to user ogenstein whom misrepresented facts and guidelines / criterias which are explicitly clear. The response includes many additional secondary sources (themselves including screen captures), and reasons why criterias are met for WP:COMPOSER, WP:MUSICBIO and WP:ENT. A lack of sources does NOT mean the subject is not notable. Proper course of action is having someone add those extra sources to the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:E35:8BE2:6D00:2D5A:874E:E032:2BDD (talk) 01:50, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
 * User:2A01:E35:8BE2:6D00:2D5A:874E:E032:2BDD has been blocked. Msnicki (talk) 13:38, 6 June 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep. Meets eligibility criteria for WP:COMPOSER, WP:MUSICBIO & WP:ENT. 37.171.19.215 (talk) 02:11, 6 June 2019 (UTC) — 37.171.19.215 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.


 * Are you the same individual who's already !voted as User:2a01:e35:8be2:6d00:d41e:411a:25a0:20e7 and User:2A01:E35:8BE2:6D00:2D5A:874E:E032:2BDD? If so, you only get one !vote. Posting from multiple IP addresses so as to make it appear that you are different people is called WP:Sockpuppeting and can get you blocked.  Msnicki (talk)


 * Different IP means different user. Nothing evil there. Relax a bit. 37.171.19.215 (talk) 02:42, 6 June 2019 (UTC)


 * Different IPs does not always mean different users, which is why I asked. But okay, you're a different person but your !vote here is your very first contribution?  How did you know about this AfD?  That's unusual behavior, to say the least.  If you were asked to post here, that's called WP:Canvassing and that also is not allowed.  Msnicki (talk) 02:52, 6 June 2019 (UTC)


 * Enough of a big girl to read rules and share my own opinion. Thanx for sharing. I'm not logged in. I'd rather exchange recipes ;) 37.171.19.215 (talk) 03:02, 6 June 2019 (UTC)


 * If you have an account, you should not be editing when you're not logged in. Msnicki (talk) 13:28, 6 June 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep. Notable and passes WP:GNG (coverage in reliable sources independent of the subject), WP:NMODEL, WP:MUSICBIO, WP:COMPOSER. Adding to the references above, keep in mind that official blogs of notable recording artists may be used as sources of information about themselves WP:SELFSOURCE, especially in the context of news-related articles with no reasonable doubt as to their authenticity. But please, make sure to transfer all sources posted here to where they belong... in the article! X-Cite Records (talk) 02:55, 6 June 2019 (UTC) — X-Cite Records (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.


 * And this also is your very first edit and you also are a completely different person who just happened to discover this AfD and decide to weigh in. Sure.  Nothing unusual about any of this.  Msnicki (talk) 03:02, 6 June 2019 (UTC)


 * Contributing since 2018 on Wikimedia Commons. Certainly not going to entertain paranoid behavior. Record label to run. X-Cite Records (talk) 03:12, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment - WP:SOURCE: They cannot be used to determine notability however, which is the issue here. WP:COI: And offhand, it appears that you have an interest here and that your !vote should be stricken. ogenstein (talk) 03:40, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment: User:X-Cite Records has been reported to WP:UAA as a name implying shared use. Msnicki (talk) 05:23, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
 * X-Cite Records just happens to be the record label of Jérémy Amelin, with whom the AfD subject worked to produce his records and direct his videos, as noted above by the "keep" voters themselves. So a definite COI and possible canvassing here. Richard3120 (talk) 11:31, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
 * User:X-Cite Records has been blocked. Msnicki (talk) 13:24, 6 June 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete Article cites deleted youtube videos, personal imdb page with only a few trivial credits, and trivial short interviews from years ago. When researching subject excluding sources imdb,wiki and instagram all that turns up are similar sites like wiki and data aggregator/tumblr sites. The iTunes links are about Jeremy Amelin, they aren't about Kayden Boche. Subject has however directed/edited some short (music) videos, however directing short videos doesn't make subject itself notable. I've watched the commercials subject has been in, subject has (uncredited) bit roles in them . Not the lead actor in the commercials, trivial blink-and-you-miss-it parts. This also isn't notable enough. Subject doesn't meet WP:ENT at this time. If someone can show recent articles/interview that are of independent sources i may be convinced to change to keep.HM Wilburt (talk) 11:19, 6 June 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep Easily meets notability standards IMO. Rafe87 (talk) 03:53, 8 June 2019 (UTC)


 * Why? Or is this WP:JUSTAVOTE?  Msnicki (talk) 04:22, 8 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Indeed, why? Argument your point please. Don't just vote and run away. Going from my research this doesn't meet GNG or WP:ENT. Proof me wrong.HM Wilburt (talk) 16:59, 8 June 2019 (UTC)


 * DELETE [Aside, all caps doesn’t change the passion of my vote choice] While some of the work is notable in my opinion (Dior), there are utterly zero reliable sources which is unacceptable for a biography (or any article really). What happened to standards? Trillfendi (talk) 15:38, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment I do hope that all of the apparent WP:SOCK, WP:MEATPUPPET, WP:CANVAS activities are taken into account by the closing admin as the only stricken 'keep' !vote is a duplicate. I am unsure of procedure so I thought it better to raise the matter now. Hope this is reasonable. Regards, ogenstein (talk) 06:07, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
 * The 3 keep votes from the sockpuppet accounts have been blocked and shouldn't be counted as keep AFAIK. Besides those there are only 2 keep votes, one being WP:JUSTAVOTE. The overal consensus is delete.HM Wilburt (talk) 12:19, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

Comment: the result of the French AfD was delete, everyone except the sockpuppets being in agreement for deletion. Regards, Comte0 (talk) 14:46, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete. What a shocker. Wikipedia is not a means of promotion. The sourcing is not there. duffbeerforme (talk) 11:42, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete The keep votes in this lengthy debate are from identified socks and SPA's who were apparently canvased. Otherwise, editors have correctly pointed out the lack of RS recognition. Simply having one's name pop up in credits/trivial mentions on a google search--even if they are in association with notable works/events--does not substitute for the independent RS recognition necessary to make a subject encyclopedic important. ShelbyMarion (talk) 14:15, 12 June 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.