Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kee of Hearts (album)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. (non-admin closure) buidhe 02:23, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

Kee of Hearts (album)

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Despite repeated moves to the draft space and a decline at AFC (see User talk:Kekkofranco~enwiki), the creator of this article has decided to just go ahead and create it in the mainspace again. Fails general notability criteria (only one notable source in it so far). Sam-2727 (talk) 22:59, 25 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. Sam-2727 (talk) 22:59, 25 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 23:19, 25 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete: The only reliable source is Classic Rock. The sidebar on AllMusic is considered unreliable per WP:A/S.  Bait30   Talk 2 me pls? 23:54, 25 March 2020 (UTC)
 * This article is about the debut album of an international supergroup. Kee Marcello was and still is one of the greatest and most influential European guitarists (he has played in Europe, recording important albums with them) and Tommy Heart is the singer of the famous band Fair Warning. The sources are there (AllMusic, Blabbermouth, Melodic Rock, ClassicRock are very authoritative and reliable) and the album is relatively recent. It is produced by one of the most important producers in circulation. I think it is appropriate to invite to increase the article, instead of immediately proposing the cancellation. If you are an expert in the field, you would consider it. Among other things, a disc like this does not need advertising on wikipedia, given the importance of the members who are part of it and the label that produces it. Kekkofranco~enwiki (talk) 12:29, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete. The references cited in the article do not show the album meeting any of the criterion outlined in WP:NALBUM. A Google search of the album does not show it being critically reviewed.  Versace1608   Wanna Talk? 12:32, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
 * So, I repeat, in your opinions, is Blabbermouth not an authoritative magazine/site? Can I ask if you are in the industry and what record are we talking about and the band members who played it? Kekkofranco~enwiki (talk) 18:52, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Nobody is saying that Blabbermouth is not an authoritative website. But simply reproducing a press release on its website does not automatically confer notability on the record – it needs to have been reviewed or discussed in detail. AllMusic doesn't have anything more than a track listing. Please read WP:NALBUM. Just because some of the participants have been in well known bands before does not automatically make everything they do notable, the album has to be notable in its own right – see WP:INHERITED. Richard3120 (talk) 20:14, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Anyway, I'm updating many album articles, with sources and info, in this period of covid-19. I repeat, it would be more useful to urge to add factors that make the article more encyclopedic, rather than asking for its cancellation. Kekkofranco~enwiki (talk) 15:18, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
 * We would happily improve the article, if we could find any reliable sources, but we can't. And neither can you – you are currently updating the article with blogs and community forums, which are not accepted as reliable sources. Richard3120 (talk) 15:40, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Just to be further informed: what would be the reliable or official sources? Can I find a list of them, in order to make sure, in the future, not to add articles without the necessary references? Thanks. Kekkofranco~enwiki (talk) 16:10, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
 * See WP:RS – basically for the type of hard rock articles you are editing, established published magazines like Kerrang!, Metal Hammer and Rock Sound will be fine, plus online websites with journalistic staff and editorial control, like Brave Words and Blabbermouth. The source doesn't have to be available online, as this isn't usually possible for albums before 2000 – a citation with the magazine title, issue number and/or date, and author and page number (if available) is acceptable. If you have doubts about whether a source might be acceptable or not, you can post your query at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Albums, there are usually editors who will look into it and form a consensus. Richard3120 (talk) 16:57, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I have updated the sources on the page and there are sites / magazines such as Rocktopia (Fireworks), Classic Rock / Louder, Blabbermouth, Metal Hammer and Brave Words. Sufficient to examine the article of the encyclopedic album.
 * If corrections are to be made, I trust in help. Kekkofranco~enwiki (talk) 19:39, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep: Per Kekkofranco~enwiki. Sources recently added by the creator are reliable enough, hence making the article good enough to pass WP:NALBUM. ASTIG😎  (ICE T • ICE CUBE) 06:03, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
 * BTW, if you're thinking of arguing with me over my vote, don't bother responding at all. I'm not interested in looking for an argument in this AfD. So, I won't reply. My vote stands no matter what. ASTIG😎  (ICE T • ICE CUBE) 06:06, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   07:54, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep: I will continue to research and add reliable and independent sources to give greater importance to this article in addition to those already posted such as Rocktopia, Classic Rock / Louder, Blabbermouth, Metal Hammer and Brave Words. There are articles on Wikipedia where the sources are available in less quantity, but without a cancellation request which which I would not support anyway. Kekkofranco~enwiki (talk) 18:27, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
 * That argument is WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS which is not a valid argument for AfD discussions. You've just repeated the sources that you stated above – please note that just an announcement of a release is not in-depth coverage as required by WP:RS, even if it appears in a reliable source. Richard3120 (talk) 22:52, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
 * So what number of independent and reliable sources are needed to make this article relevant? Are Classic Rock, Metal Hammer and Rocktopia not enough? Which represent the ones you share. I believe there are other reliable ones too, but you don't agree. Kekkofranco~enwiki (talk) 17:03, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
 * "Believing" they exist is not enough, you have to prove they exist (see WP:BURDEN)... but see my answer below... Richard3120 (talk) 17:08, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Weak keep: actually, I think this article now passes the criteria for WP:NALBUM. Classic Rock is definitely a reliable source, and I think Metal Hammer Italia is too, because I think it's the official Italian franchise of Metal Hammer. Rocktopia is debatable, but it's worth opening a debate on its reliability, which I will do at WP:ALBUMS. So there are at least two reliable reviews here... it would be good to get more, but I think this just scrapes over the line for now. Richard3120 (talk) 17:08, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 13:42, 9 April 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.