Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Keith L. Craig


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Consensus is he doesn't meet the bar, and sourcing is an issue Star   Mississippi  02:03, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

Keith L. Craig

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

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 * "Sergeant Major Craig is the ambassador of the Exchange in Europe & Southwest Asia Region, providing essential support to the war fighters, enhancing expeditionary capabilities, and interacting with the highest strategic levels within the Department of Defense and the U.S. State Department."
 * "Keith managed Central Division sales and distribution strategy for the Walt Disney Studio Motion Pictures in 20 theatrical demographic market areas, ensuring the prompt and timely delivery of film to exhibitors and the accuracy of the box office reports."
 * "In addition to his primary duties at Disney, Sergeant Major Craig was president of the company's diversity resource group Salute, charge with supporting military veterans employed by the studio, helping them to integrate, strengthen and grow their careers and provide a sense of community within the organization."
 * "He was recognized for his improving project planning and performance through the coordinated deployment of automated systems and innovative management methodologies."

Promotion for non notable businessman/ex-soldier. Lacks coverage in independent reliable sources. History shows a long history of this being used as a means of promotion built by SPAs and maintained by SP IPs and a sock. Prod removed by yet another SPA dedicated to the promotion of this individual. duffbeerforme (talk) 12:28, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete Biographical article for a non-notable soldier. Very promo. I don't find any sourcing for this fellow. Oaktree b (talk) 13:07, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete Impressive resume, but no real evidence of notability. The relative large number of edits gives me pause, but I agree with duffbeerforme this seems to be sockpuppetry rather than community editing.Oblivy (talk) 13:18, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * As backup for sockpuppet accusations, the following editors have ONLY edited this page:
 * 2600:8805:5300:AC00:2865:6482:C17B:A7E
 * 2600:8805:5300:AC00:1D46:61F2:EE5D:FAA5
 * UltraOmnipotent
 * 2600:8805:5300:AC00:F050:D89D:4201:C5FD
 * Suspected sockpuppeteer: PACHECO2
 * 
 * which edited TWO other pages...one of which refers to Keith Craig and the other links to the first.
 * Report is being prepared nowOblivy (talk) 13:57, 10 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete very little sources and not very notable military record
 * Nagol0929 (talk) 13:23, 10 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople, Sportspeople, Military, American football,  and Alabama.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 14:27, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * A very in-depth article here from The Signal. It seems he played three games in the World League of American Football, although I haven't yet found much coverage for his playing career. BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:01, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * SIGCOV here from the European Stars & Stripes. BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:10, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * More sigcov from that source: and . Lesser coverage:   . BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:24, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Coverage which may or may not count towards notability: U.S. Veterans Magazine; Formidable Men Magazine (mostly interview); ThisIs50; Voice Online; Heart and Soul Magazine; and Bleu Magazine. BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:40, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep. Even if the magazine articles do not count, we've still got the in-depth piece from The Signal as well as multiple pieces of sigcov from the European Stars & Stripes, and GNG only requires "multiple" pieces of such coverage to be a pass (and two is multiple, so in my opinion we have a pass). Alternatively, I'd be willing to have it draftified so I could improve it and remove the promotional tone. Pinging users who have previously commented for their thoughts: BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:49, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * If he's notable for the sports playing, that's fine. Keep but draftify to remove the promo tone. Will adjust my !vote above. Oaktree b (talk) 16:21, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I will keep my vote as stated below there is nothing notable about this person and it seems very promo. Also the newspaper article is from a very local publication Nagol0929 (talk) 19:08, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * After yeoman's work by User:Cbl62 the article is closer to meeting standards, but aside from the football (of which more later) it relies on a WP:SELFPUB resume and a newspaper story that is, almost without doubt, heavily reliant on the subject's own telling of his story. Note that the article claims he was CEO of Clever Talks but the website is inactive, by late 2019 its 501(c)(3) status had been revoked or was on its way to being revoked, and October 2019 archive.org snapshots don't contain an "about" page but April 2019 doesn't list him. He never signed an IRS document for Clever Talks as CEO and there's no evidence he worked for them aside from the Signal article and the resume. Hard to tell notability from Stars & Stripes coverage as it's behind a paywall, but from the OCR text on the paywall page it seems to be only relevant to football plus a small amount of military service (i.e. one posting and rank at the time). I'm still at delete but open minded about draftify. Oblivy (talk) 23:41, 10 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Comment. This was one of the worst cases of BLP violation and promotion I've ever seen. I have begun hacking away at the unsourced content (the majority of the article) and revising the promotion. Much of what is left is sourced to a highly promotional biography on Craig's personal web site (here) which refers to himself as "U. S. Ambassador" (huh?), "Humanitarian", "International Best-Selling Author" (again, huh?) "industry change-agent", "champion for filmmakers" and "multibillion dollar media leader." Given the exaggerated tone and questionable accuracy of this self-penned biography, I really don't think it can be used as a reliable source for anything. Cbl62 (talk) 17:17, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete. I've now significantly trimmed it back. Having done so, I find nothing remarkable or notable. He served in the military for 32 years, principally in logistics roles, and attained the rank of sergeant major. He played three games of professional football as a backup wide receiver in a minor league. His brief career at Disney also appears unremarkable. The piece from The Santa Clarita Signal, while it has some depth, is a puff piece in an ultra-local suburban newspaper, the objectivity of which has been questioned since it was acquired in 2018 by a publisher known for boosting right-wing conspiracy theories. See here. Just not seeing anything to warrant a stand-alone article. Cbl62 (talk) 19:00, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I see your points, and am a "weak" keep, but still stand by keep. Locality of coverage does not matter, and so I still believe the piece from The Signal can count towards notability (as for its reliability, we do not have it listed in the Deprecated sources page or on the list of unreliable sources, so I believe it can still be considered a reliable source) – we've also got multiple pieces of SIGCOV from the European Stars & Stripes, and I don't see why that wouldn't count. So we've got at least two pieces of SIGCOV from reliable and independent publications, which in my opinion satisfies GNG, which only needs "multiple" of such pieces (and two is multiple), although I admit it is a weak pass. Also, coverage is pretty much the only thing that matters for notability nowadays, so saying "he hasn't done anything super remarkable" is not a great argument IMO. BeanieFan11 (talk) 19:42, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * As for the "ultra-local suburban newspaper" argument, I don't think that's correct. According to our articles, it is the only newspaper serving Santa Clarita, California, which has a population of over 200,000 and is among the top 100 largest cities in the US. BeanieFan11 (talk) 19:47, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Craig's military career is unremarkable -- 32 years as an enlisted man, never promoted to officer rank. His "entertainment" career is likewise unremarkable -- a couple years as a sales rep for Disney. Likewise, his pro football career was limited to 3 games as a backup in a minor league. As for The Santa Clarita Signal, Santa Clarita is a suburb of Los Angeles. The principal paper serving the Santa Clarita Valley is the Los Angeles Times. The Signal is, in fact, a small suburban paper run by a conspiracy-pushing, right-wing publisher. The Signal article on Craig reads like a puff piece on a local resident with little or no editorial oversight. Cbl62 (talk) 20:01, 10 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Draftify not enough SIGCOV as currently laid out and the article in written in a promotional tone. I have no problem if Beaniefan wishes to improve the article to acceptable quality, as this user has done with several other pages.  Frank  Anchor  19:44, 10 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete I hate these sort of articles at NPP when the article author cannot tell us in simple words why a subject is worthy of an article. Not notable as a military figure. I am willing to strike my vote if the sports folks think that playing for the WLAF is notable. Hawkeye7   (discuss)  03:59, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The WLAF was a minor league, and he appeared in only three games as a backup. Cbl62 (talk) 05:19, 11 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete fails WP:GNG. Like Hawkeye7 I will strike my !vote if his sports career satisfies NSPORT. Mztourist (talk) 10:56, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per Cbl62's reasoning. Best, GPL93 (talk) 19:30, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete in addition to other reasoning above, I'll add WP:IMPACT.--Paul McDonald (talk) 15:30, 16 March 2023 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.