Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kelly Richey (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Despite the very impressive puppetry by single purpose accounts. (non-admin closure) Winged Blades of Godric On leave 06:23, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Kelly Richey
AfDs for this article: 
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As an artist musician this has failed for BLP. Biographer has personal knowledge of the subject. no connection to Arista Records whatsoever. no connection to Lonnie Mack whatsoever. --12.38.238.66 (talk) 11:44, 29 August 2017 (UTC)
 * — 12.38.238.66 (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.


 * Keep - Completing nomination on behalf of IP. Above text was copied from article talk page.  As for my own view, previous nomination from 2011 was a clear keep, and more sources are easily found.  Easily passes WP:GNG. -- Finngall   talk  14:10, 29 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Kentucky-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 15:24, 29 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ohio-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 15:24, 29 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 15:24, 29 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 15:24, 29 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete - 1) No link supports biographers clams of subjects early life. All links are toward a periodical but nothing supporting claim. 2) No link or evidence of career joining Arista Records. Biographer appears to have personal knowledge of equipment as in "1963 body and 1965 neck, pick-up, amp and effects". No supporting Links Whatsoever. This page has problems with verifiability from reliable sources and does meet the Wikipedia Criteria for speedy Deletion.Ifyouwill (talk) 16:04, 29 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Question - Are you the same person as the IP above? -- Finngall  talk  16:28, 29 August 2017 (UTC)
 * What? Ifyouwill (talk) 15:21, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
 * — Ifyouwill (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.


 * Keep – (responding to IP request on my talk page) On the surface, I don't see why this is nominated for deletion. She has a AllMusic bio, which also has four album reviews, and is mentioned in blues journals like Living Blues, Blues Review, etc. (these refs could be added). , , and  (who requested my comment) appear to be WP:Single-purpose accounts and I question their motives here. I'll change to "delete" if someone gives some better reasons. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:50, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
 * The apparent SPA edting here is still bothersome. Additionally, their arguments are not based on WP:MUSICBIO, which lists several notability criteria for music.  Having releases on a major record label is not the sole criterion (they keep arguing about Arista) if the artist meets others, e.g., #1. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:22, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Please look more closely Ojorojo. There is no verifiable reference for connection to a major record label on Allmusic ether. All recordings listed there are self-produced. WP:NPOV No connection to Arista Records can be found. Motive is Truth 174.97.1.181 (talk) 18:23, 30 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep Google can be used for searches other than the name of the topic.  For example ["Kelly Richey" Arista], shows that Kelly Richey "started touring in 1986 with a band on Arista records called Stealin' Horses".  The problem as stated for Arista can be fixed with editing.  The deletes also correctly note that the article contains some material that does not have inline citations and appears to not be verifiable.  Again, the problem as stated can be fixed with editing.  As per WP:Editing policy, fixable problems are not reasons for deletion.  Unscintillating (talk) 23:26, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
 * No, *Stealin' Horses* was a single solo album and had Mandy Meyer, Steve Lukather and Danny Kortchmar on Electric Guitars. In case you can't find Danny Kortchmar, he's on G.E. Smith's website. Danny played for James Taylor and Carol King and many more but you don't have a wiki page for him! While no one named Kelly nor Richey sang or played a single solo note on Arista Records Stealin' Horses or anything else Arista Records! Not a Signed Artist to Arista! More to come...174.97.1.181 (talk) 00:04, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Was it too much trouble to do the Google search I provided? The 3rd snippet states, "Kelly Richey, an American blues rock guitarist, singer, and composer ... joining Stealin' Horses in 1986, the band was signed to Arista records."  The 7th snippet states, "At 23, Richey joined Arista band Stealin' Horses, and she toured and".  The 8th states, "produced by Kiya Heartwood, of the '90s band Stealin' Horses, which was on the Arista label."   The 9th and last states, "Shortly after joining Stealin' Horses in 1986, the band was signed to Arista records."  Unscintillating (talk) 00:24, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank You Unscintillating. http://waddywachtelinfo.com/StealinHorses.html no kelly richey here ether 174.97.1.181 (talk) 00:55, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
 * One more note Unscintillating. As you can see from the Waddy Wachtel info Arista released that album 1885, not later. She is not on the record and has never been signed to a Major Record Label as her Wikibio States! This is the beginning of a deep credibility issue 174.97.1.181 (talk) 01:34, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
 * as a kid I was a janitor for Bill Graham. I met Richie Furay and he invited me to play with him. I did for a while but that does not make me a member of his record company. The record company did not sign Kelly Richey or me. I have a phone call into Jim O'Neal and am waiting on a return call to verify if Living Blues Magazine ever did a review or write-up on anything Kelly Richey. If she has been reviewed by a writer in LB I will apologize to Ojorojo and Unscintillating for dragging yous into it and I’ll vote "keep".174.97.1.181 (talk) 01:53, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I see what you did on your google Unscintillating    Ok, Ok, I’ll try this again. Stealin horses did “One" Album for Arista, Solo, Single (1). Released in 1985. Other albums were produced and released independently. Not Arista nor Clive Davis or any other Major Record Label. The label dropped them. Kelly Richey has never been associated with Arista, Clive Davis or a Major Label. It's all debunked by it's timeline. Please find one Arista record anyplace that has Kelly Richey on it. Bet you can't! Anyway, Clive was kinda busy with Whitney Houston back then.    174.97.1.181 (talk) 02:35, 31 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete: This is based on WP:NPOV and  WP:BLP with due diligence. Ifyouwill Unscintillating Ojorojo  Finngall  12.38.238.66 I called Jim O'Neal from Living Blues Magazine and asked them to search for any “Reviews" or “Short Take’s" for Kelly Richey. I received a return phone call from Melanie of LBM Oxford MS. Nothing was found in their Data Base on Kelly Richey or Kelly Ritchie. As I suspected,  a quality magazine with their high standards has never reviewed Kelly Richey. Also have had a response from Peter Edge office of Sony Music that acquired RCA that Acquired Arista and no Artist in their data base was budgeted or promoted named Kelly Richey. The subject in question is self-produced, self-titled amateur music production, self-published  for a self-named label WP:MUSICBIO. A biographer that made claim that Kelly Richey was a Major Recording Artist failed. This page is not properly sourced and the Inline citations WP:CS are also bogus! Edits won’t fix this page.   WP:BLP  glad to help and was nice getting in touch   174.97.1.181 (talk) 21:11, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
 * — 174.97.1.181 (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * And Here is the other Stealin Horses record on Waldoxy Records. http://www.allmusic.com/album/mesas-and-mandolins-mw0000664298/credits   Kelly Richey is NOT listed on the credits for guitars or vocals on this one ether.  Does anybody get this?  TRUTH   174.97.1.181 (talk) 00:18, 2 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Again, looked up all the Kiya Heartwood of Stealin Horses solo records, and Kelly Richey is not credited on any of them ether. Incidentally Kiya also does not even have a wikipage. Wishing Chair https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wishing_Chair   174.97.1.181 (talk) 00:39, 2 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Weak keep: Wow, 174.97.1.181, you really, really, really want to delete this page! Regardless of your efforts, your persuasiveness is weakened by editing from an IP address rather than a proper profile. So is your mostly SPA edit history. They raise red flags among veteran editors and administrators who will likely question your motives and investigate you for sock-puppetry. That aside, there is indeed a lot of self-promotional verbiage here, mostly from the subjects own website. Yes, the sort of puffery you are exposing is a re-occurring problem on wikipedia. Claims of being with a major label with only the slightest, tangential connection is classic resume padding. (The type I notice most often is the insistence a non-notable subsidiary of a major label is the same as being on a major label, but I digress.)
 * Allmusic profiles are especially bothersome. Once upon a time an Allmusic listing meant something, acknowledging recording artists with worthy track records. Ever since the company was acquired by the Rovi database in 2011 it has become a collecting ground of information on simply anything in their database that is for sale—in essence providing profiles for something that proves existence only. (and I don’t think anyone will argue this artist doesn’t exist.) Nonetheless, a profile there is still held up as a gold standard source among AfD editors who don’t bother to dig deeper. Having said all that, there is the undeniable matter of this subject’s somewhat extensive coverage in local (i.e. Cincinnati region) media. These indeed add up to likely notability. I’m voting weak keep, however, because these are nearly all dead links, making my efforts to verify them impossible. My independent search finds interviews and promo-ish type content, or—such as the Guitar Player reference—something trivial in nature but half-notable for the mere recognition by such an authoritative source. The subject’s own website touts additional coverage not cited in this article. Reviews of her work are in abundance among smaller, niche sources. Bottom line: this is truly a borderline ivote, My experience of investigating many AfD nominations suggest this is someone at the very lowest possible level of notability on a common sense level, but squeaks through per wikipedia’s more broadly defined criteria. ShelbyMarion (talk) 14:11, 2 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Hi ShelbyMarion, Thank You, really, really, really are redundant intensifiers even with the italic on the third. WoW, As to my non-participating in wiki because could be it is new to me. Can a nobody from the sideline point out the truth? As for motive “If everybody Lies the truth becomes unimportant". Motive frankly, It’s as I said. “TRUTH". I don’t care if I have a 10Million edit account because this is about truth and nothing but the truth. This is a "Biography of a Living Person" that I am certain Could Uses it as a promotional tool. Like you said Allmusic is not really screening their source, so it’s kinda pay to play (P2P), yet I have inquired. Allmusic is the only generator of the Major Record Label fallacy. You Know, I have been burnt and have seen "Used Car Salesmen" and "Real Estate Agents” that should be jailed for this type of misrepresentation. Ojorojo states, "just add one of her many reviews from Living Blues". So, I knew how to reach them and I went to the mountain and you know what I found? Never Happened.  ShelbyMarion, would you like me to Contact Guitar Player Magazine to see if they have ever reviewed Kelly Richey? They may have because it’s not the same kinda rag as LBM. (P2P) As of now, I can’t find anything to link her to GPM other than her website. So, I won’t change my thought’s along these lines after I did this exercise in police research.  I have discovered that good school’s won’t let their students use wiki as a reference, but I digress. Using wiki to spread lies is not a crime that I am aware of. If you want to buy a used car or an old house, I’m who you want with you! "research and results” all I attempted to do is debunk or discredit the first line in the Bio. I believe I accomplished that and more. "To whom know’s the truth or not, no one can not make another acknowledge it." Me, Myself and I *  174.97.1.181 (talk) 22:05, 2 September 2017 (UTC)
 * The IPs attempt to mischaracterize my comments just further underscores the problems with their arguments here. I wrote "She has a AllMusic bio, which also has four album reviews, and is mentioned in blues journals like Living Blues, Blues Review, etc. (these refs could be added)" (my emphasis).  I did not "state" or imply "just add one of her many reviews from Living Blues". She is mentioned in connection to a song in Living Blues (p. 57), album reviews in Blues Review,, Modern Drummer, and Big City Blues Magazine.  I am not saying that this plus AllMusic, etc., adds up to satisfying MUSICBIO #1, but I am not reading any credible arguments that they don't. Of course, we could all just settle for THE TRUTH as expounded by three SPAs who just happened to show up on the same AfD for an article that has had only a few maintenance edits in the last five years. —Ojorojo (talk) 23:06, 2 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I haven’t mischaracterized your comments Ojorojo. What you have shown could be proper inline reference. Kelly Richey’s with the ('s) is my guess why LBM couldn’t find it. It’s not a review or a short take and that’s what I had them search. She’s still not associated with a Major Record Label as the page states. So that is a fallacy. Whoever wrote the bios on Allmusic/Wiki said she is associated with a major label. Please would you hunt for evidence of that? Even Kiya Heartwood that landed that record deal doesn’t associate herself with Arista Records. I can not find evidence of Kelly Richey ever playing with Stealin Horses. Stealin’ Horses Bios on Allmusic Mention Kelly Richie a couple of times yet, Stealin” Horses has a few Guitar Players that are "Rock and Roll Hall of Fame” inductees that aren’t mentioned in it. Doesn’t that seem curious to you? And Allmusic bios are the only place.   174.97.1.181 (talk) 00:32, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  J 947(c) (m) 18:46, 5 September 2017 (UTC)


 * more, I see you went on an editing spree adding pages to support weak content from who knows who. Lots a work for an impartial editor!
 * This is a Biography of a Living Person. Does anybody think it should be notable without using substandard interviews? The new thing that replaced the other is really weak. Here is an interview from who knows who about someone stating something in the interview that can not be verified. What we have here: Lacks support, has no integrity.
 * If she worked in Nashville and “Joined" the Major Record Label band and toured a year as she said, I would think there should be a Contract with the Musicians Union. Local 257
 * Think about this Example: Dave Matthews of the Dave Mathews Band also "Sat-In" with the performers that came trough the club where he was a bartender in Virginia circa 1986. 15 years later after selling millions upon millions of records he could sell out practically every venue on the planet. I'd consider that worthy of a wikipage. Example: Bill Bartlett among other things did "Black Betty" another artist sold millions of records and his wiki page was taken down. Really, I still say: Failed.   174.97.1.181 (talk) 09:54, 6 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep - More than enough coverage to justify an article. Robman94 (talk) 02:47, 7 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment - The so-called "personal knowledge" (ie, the details about the guitar and strings) referenced by 12.38.238.66 and Ifyouwill comes directly from the Guitar Player magazine interview with Richey. Furthermore, the edit history of both Ifyouwill and 174.97.1.181 suggest that they are the same person.  Finally, an iplocation.net look-up shows that IP 174.97.1.181 comes from Cincinnati, OH which is coincidentally the same location that Richey is from, suggesting that the IP knows the subject and may add light on why they appear to have such a personal ax to grind against the subject. Robman94 (talk) 15:10, 8 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment - That link didn't work for me. So, anyway; Why is Kiya Heartwood listed and was a member in the Nashville Musicians Association Local 257 and Kelly Richey is not, and was not? Do you think she was on tour as a member of that band and went on a stage without membership? Ask Nashville Musicians Association (tel: 615-244-9514)  174.97.1.181 (talk) 21:05, 8 September 2017 (UTC)
 * What exactly are you trying to say? Are you suggesting that Richey was never a member of Stealin Horses? If so, how do you explain this publicity photo, with their names under their pictures no less? As for the link that doesn't work for you (but works for me), here's a quote:"To say that Richey has bonded with her guitar is an understatement. “I’ve had this Strat for more than 20 years,” she laughs. “It has been the one constant in my life, and it never leaves my side. It’s a magical instrument-my friends say I’ll be buried with it. It has a ‘65 neck and a ‘63 body, but there’s nothing original except the wood and the knobs. When I was young and stupid, I got rid of the pickups because I wanted the ones that didn’t buzz. I even cut a big hole in the body and installed a Kahler whamm!! Now I have a traditional trem pulled flush to the body with four springs, so I really have to push on the bar to make it work. The neck has big frets-which I love-and the pickguard is wired with Duncan Classic Stack pickups and new pots. I use S.I.T. Strings-gauged .010-.046- which I change every night because I play so hard. And, thanks to Joe Walsh, I use a .60mm nylon Dunlop pick. He showed me how to get more traction on each note by using the fat, textured end of these picks instead of their points. I’m not a strong fingerpicker, but I use my middle and ring fingers in conjunction with my pick all the time. When the music gets quiet, and I want to pull more out of each note, I’ll put the pick between my middle and index fingers and play lead with my fingertips.” Robman94 (talk) 23:45, 8 September 2017 (UTC)"


 * Thank You, that promo photo Verified Kelly Richie wasn't on Arista when it was taken. She was with that band after the Major Record Label drop them! So we can close that element for good. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:A000:1303:4143:1835:814A:96A3:5D78 (talk) 00:23, 9 September 2017 (UTC)
 * — 2605:A000:1303:4143:1835:814A:96A3:5D78 (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * I am curious how an un-dated photo proves that, but no matter, if your point is that she didn't record for Arista, I have no argument and I took the mention of Arista out of the article a while ago. If you want to know what really happened, read this article.  But, none of that explains your delete !vote and the level of effort that you are putting forward to get this article deleted, so why don't you come clean and be honest about what you're real gripe with her is? Robman94 (talk) 01:00, 9 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I did a lot of work for the truth. WP:BLP Read or re-read what is here. I am curious how you have that weird scanned pic too! More of the truth according to who? Somebody said all "records companies are evil”? That"s what really happened? thanks again 2605:A000:1303:4143:945E:B1E8:E72A:7EF9 (talk) 06:45, 9 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete  The promo photo you pictured Robman94 is somewhat distorted. From what I can read it isn't the band Stealin' Horses. It has the names of the lady players. That helps make the case; "did't play with Stealin' Horses".  WP:BLPNOTE The sources are not reliable.     64.134.166.188 (talk) 03:06, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
 * — 64.134.166.188 (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.


 * Comment - A truly notable person WP:BLP:  Elizabeth McQueen ,vocalist, has no wikipedia article. She plays great guitar and sang lead for  Asleep at the Wheel for eight years. Won a Grammy Award for Sitting on Top of the World with Willie Nelson . She does a radio show on KTUX Austin every Saturday morning. You’d learn a lot to listen! Quit touring for their kids! Remarkable Person!    64.134.166.188 (talk) 03:34, 10 September 2017 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, &Alpha; Guy into Books &trade;  &sect; ( Message ) -  14:36, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep: Adequate indicia of notability as a musician.   Montanabw (talk) 18:47, 12 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete The articles that are supporting comments are faux interviews in unreliable non-published online page. Failed.   66.80.125.178 (talk) 00:53, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
 * — 66.80.125.178 (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic, except for vandalism edits which have been reverted.


 * Keep, despite the efforts of the SPA editors and IP's, clearly meets WP:GNG.  Onel 5969  TT me 21:06, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment -  Onel 5969  With all due respect. WP:NEXIST. Where did you verify that she played with Stealin' Horses? Her Interviews?  69.61.204.118 (talk) 00:33, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment - Meets WP:CSD WP:BLP see: Reliable sources   69.61.204.118 (talk) 00:50, 20 September 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.