Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kenichi Sawai


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Even if the IPs are discounted, we don't really have a clear consensus to delete.  Sandstein  11:02, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

Kenichi Sawai

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Martial artist with no significant independent coverage. Sources are passing mentions and he's not even mentioned in all of them. Being soundly defeated repeatedly by someone is not grounds for notability nor is creating a minor variation of an existing martial art.Jakejr (talk) 04:11, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions. North America1000 04:49, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. North America1000 04:49, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Japan-related deletion discussions. North America1000 04:49, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. North America1000 04:49, 25 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep Subject of documentaries (e.g. ) and books in his native Japan, author of multiple published books, covered in multiple sources (which of the sources in the article doesn't mention him? I can find his name in every single one), important figure in Japanese and internal martial arts history. Try Googling his name in Japanese... Yunshui 雲 水  07:46, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
 * keep many documentaries in Japan. 173.52.89.236 (talk) 12:24, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Please list some of the "many documentaries" you claim are there. Astudent0 (talk) 17:07, 25 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Undecided The article's sources are passing mentions. FWIW my internet search didn't find him in the "Chinese Kung Fu" book.  Yunshui does provide a link to a documentary, but I noticed his entry on the Japanese WP only has one source so that's a problem.  Are his books considered significant as defined at WP:MANOTE? Astudent0 (talk) 17:07, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
 * The mention in Chinese Kung Fu is under the alternate reading of his name, "Keniqi Takuike". Yunshui 雲 水 07:37, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you, but that appears to be another passing mention. Astudent0 (talk) 17:05, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

Keep passes gng2607:FB90:E9A:510D:0:48:EBBF:E701 (talk) 04:55, 28 September 2015 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Weak delete I'm changing my undecided to weak delete based on the lack of significant independent coverage that has been presented. I'm seeing claims but not enough supporting evidence. Astudent0 (talk) 17:05, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 07:58, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete Lacks the sources required to meet WP:GNG or WP:MANOTE. Mdtemp (talk) 14:45, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Keep Kenichi Sawai was a notable student of Wang Xiangzhai. He was likely the first ever to teach a Chinese Internal martial art in Japan (the art of Yi Quan) and during his time one of very few in Japan who taught Chinese martial arts in general. He was good friends with Mas Oyama and the two cross-influenced each other. Jonathan.bluestein (talk) 10:14, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Notability is not inherited from teachers or friends. If you have a reliable independent source that says he was the first to teach a Chinese internal martial art in Japan, that's different. Do you have such a source?Mdtemp (talk) 18:28, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Keep GOOD ARTICLES ABOUT HIM ONLINE2607:FB90:246A:83B:0:24:F72F:A901 (talk) 17:57, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Again we have a new IP making the same claims as the other new IPs, but not furnishing any evidence or links. Papaursa (talk) 20:15, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Weak Delete There is not enough significant independent coverage of him to support the claim he meets WP:GNG. Of those advocating the article be kept, only Yunshui has provided any supporting evidence and that was just one source.  The fact that the Japanese WP also has just one source doesn't help his case.  Searching in Japanese sources I was able to find mentions of his name, but not to determine if the coverage was both significant and from independent and reliable sources. Papaursa (talk) 20:15, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Weak keep I feel that he should be kept but it is hard to come up with a good reason - the coverage isn't great.  He is sort of a nexus point which we can see but find difficult to describe.Peter Rehse (talk) 20:57, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete searches turned up nothing to show they meet either WP:GNG or WP:MANOTE.  Onel 5969  TT me 02:06, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Rcsprinter123    (collogue)  09:56, 10 October 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.