Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kevin J. Kennedy


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. v/r - TP 19:11, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Kevin J. Kennedy

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Delete per WP:ANYBIO -- Alan Liefting (talk) - 13:32, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions.  — • Gene93k (talk) 15:25, 8 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep CEO of a very major company such as Avaya is notable. That position meets the ANYBIO specification of "The person has made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in his or her specific field." The chief executives of such companies are part of the historical record, and are always discussed extensive in the books that are written about the company, though it is not reasonable to expect such book coverage of the present ceo, ANYBIO was given as the only argument for deletion.   DGG ( talk ) 17:47, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:01, 15 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete or merge to Avaya. It is not true that the president of a notable company inherits that notability. Being tapped as CEO is not "a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in his or her specific field." This CV does not appear to satisfy WP:BIO. I can't call it a biography, since so much basic info is missing. Apparently he sprang into existence the day he first got a college degree, and had no birthplace, birth date or family. Edison (talk) 20:07, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep. Search of Google News archive from the year 2000 to the present shows 100 clips, demonstrating significant coverage in publications such as InformationWeek. Here's his Forbes profile. Kennedy is also a member of the President's National Security Telecommunications Advisory Committee (see here). Definitely notable. The article is in pretty bad shape, so I think time permitting I'll expand it. Neutralitytalk 20:31, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment"Definitely notable" because he is a member of a nonnotable committee? I disagree. The raw number of GNews hits is not a valid index of notability. Many of them derive from such things as a company's press release that the guy is coming on board or is leaving, and the raw number vastly overstates the notability. Others are passing references ("Joe Blow will report to Kevin Kennedy") or have a brief quote from him, not really an indication of notability. Do any actually provide biographic information rather than resumé (education and jobs) information? The best (for notability) articles should be independent (not a press release or a thinly veiled reprint of one) and have coverage of him, not just a quote about the company from him.  Could you also take a look at Charles Giancarlo, a similarly anemic bio article about another CEO of the same company, but whose AFD was closed after only one day? Edison (talk) 20:38, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Did you read any of the material? The Forbes profile is full of biographical data. The news articles (in multiple languages) do indeed include many quotes from Kennedy, but they also include many articles for which he is the main focus. As for that "non-notable" committee, we actually have an article on the office to which it belongs. (The presidential advisory committee he's on is a pretty big signifier of prominence - take a look at some of the other committee members, who are all very high-level telecom executives for which we already have articles: Dan Hesse, Clayton M. Jones, Edward Mueller, Ivan G. Seidenberg, William H. Swanson). Want more sources? Here he is being interviewed on CNBC. Here is is as the major focus of a Reuters article. Here he is giving the keynote address at Enterprise Connect, the big annual convention. Here he is in an interview with InfoWorld. Here he is in an article with Forbes on his strategy to beat Cisco. Here he is in an interview with CRN Magazine. This is an easy call. Neutralitytalk 00:31, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Did you actually read the Forbes "profile?" It is nothing but another resumé. It reads like he is applying for a job. Where does it or the other proferred references mention his parents, his birthdate, or his home town, all of which are essential information for a purported "biography?" He cannot "inherit notability" from other members of some committee he was on. Which of the "100's" of articles actually have him as the "main focus," or provide "significant coverage " of him as required by WP:BIO and WP:N? Quotes from him about the company are inadequate to prove he is notable, and only suggest that perhaps he should be mentioned in the article about the company, to furnish information about it. Then you offer a ref from CNBC via Avaya, where he talks about one of their gadgets. The interview is about the gadget, not about HIM. The next article you offer, from Reuters, is about an acquisition by Avaya, not about the man at all. The keynote reproduced from some website  called "nojitter" (reliable source?)is about something called the "SIP" interface, and says nothing about the man in question.  The interview at Infoworld was about the company's "collaboration strategy" and not about Kennedy. We learned zero about him. The Forbes article shows him holding a laptop, but tells us nothing about him at all. The CRN piece is the text of a speech he gave at his company about business strategy, and is not really about the man, nor is it remotely an "independent" source. Is "CRN" a reliable source in any event? More than foot stomping and hand waving is needed to substantiate claims of notability. I agree that it is an easy call. "Delete" or perhaps "Merge" to the article about the company. Edison (talk) 04:02, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I am genuinely astonished. It seems that no matter what sources I show, all are dismissed. The many reliable, detailed sources that prominently feature Kennedy in relation to Avaya are dismissed as being "about the company, not about him." And the many reliable, detailed sources that deal specifically with him (like the Forbes profile previously linked and - here's a new one - this profile on BusinessWeek) are dismissed as being "like a resumé." First of all, I'm not sure what artificial distinction you are drawing between "biographic information" and a "resume." These profiles by Forbes and BusinessWeek aren't random self-published pieces taken from Monster.com; these are from reputable publications and include tons of information about Kennedy's education; his past positions; his membership on various corporate boards; his compensation, and so on. If you want more "personal" information, there's a post on McGee-Smith Analytics on Kennedy's background, his friends, and even his Irish background (!) As for an individual's parents, birthdate, and hometown being "essential information" - there is no absolutely no policy to support that claim. That info is nice to have, and should be included when it can be properly referenced, but it's not "essential" to make an article notable, especially when there is an enormous wealth of other information about the individual. As to reliability of sources, as anyone who takes the few minutes to look them up can see, NoJitter.com (formerly Business Communications Review magazine) and CRN Magazine are a blog and a trade publication, respectively, by UBM plc. They conduct original reporting and appear to be reputable trade publications. BCR appears to have been published for many years. Neutralitytalk 05:17, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for taking the time to post additional thoughts. I'll take your word that the "nojitter" and BCR are RS. The profiles are just bits of business resumé. The articles which have some in-depth coverage of his business career such as the 2008 nojitter are of some use in supporting notability. I object to a biography which only contains information about someone's work at a particular company. If no reliable sources have talked about his life outside his college credentials and his high level business positions, then I question his notability. If we take some other business leaders of the past, say Henry Ford or George Westinghouse, lots of complete bio information has been published. Or consider modern business figures like Warren Buffet or Steve Jobs. We learn about their birthdate, their parents, their hometown. They do not spring to life the day they completed their education as does Kevin Kennedy. If the published information is restricted to his college degree through his present business position, then it is appropriate to mention him in the article about the company, to avoid having a plethora of "vanity corporate biography" resumé-stubs. These are horribly selective, and promotional in tone, and when they are all that has been published, sources are lacking for a balanced biographical article. If being head of a company of a certain size provides "inherent notability," comparable to having certain levels of political office, then WP:BIO should be modified to state as much.  Edison (talk) 19:51, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for continuing the discussion. I think it is really excellent that we have people making robust challenges to articles, and even though I disagree I really respect that you have taken the time to discuss. There is little left to write that I have not already exhausted above. You write that you "question his notability" because "no reliable sources have talked about his life outside...his high level business positions." My response is: He is notable because of his high-level business positions; he doesn't require extensive additional coverage of his non-business pursuits to make him notable. We wouldn't delete Butch Otter because "no reliable sources have talked about his life outside his political positions"; we wouldn't delete Patty Griffin because "no reliable sources have talked about her life outside of her entertainment industry pursuits." I suppose we have to agree to disagree here. Neutralitytalk 05:26, 20 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Strong Keep He is a multimillionaire (Forbes cites 5.9 million for just 2009 just from Avaya), a business person on the board of directors of several large companies and an author. I have added several citations and additional content; I agree that we need to add additional content and citations.  There are thousands of them, I just added a few, and will add more later.  Geek2003 (talk) 16:50, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.