Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kevin Jarman


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete. Michig (talk) 07:59, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Kevin Jarman
Does not appear notable per WP:NHOCKEY, as he never actually played a game in the NHL, didn't play in 200+ games in the AHL or CHL, and wasn't a first-round draft pick. Doesn't appear to have significant enough coverage to meet WP:NCOLLATH either (there are articles about a game-winning goal that he scored, but they're not significant coverage of him and fall under WP:BLP1E). Ahecht (TALK PAGE ) 00:06, 30 January 2015 (UTC)


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 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ontario-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:08, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:08, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ice hockey-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:08, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:08, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:08, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

3. Gained national media attention as an individual, not just as a player for a notable team. http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/hockey/2007-03-23-ncaa-hockey-roundup_N.htm search.espn.go.com/kevin-jarman/articles/9 I've seen him play, this player without a doubt should be added. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.212.185.209 (talk) 22:28, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete: A player of no particular note in college and who played just a handful of games in the mid- and low minors; fails the GNG, certainly, as the sources are just routine sports coverage debarred by WP:ROUTINE.   Ravenswing   23:02, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete Non-notable player who fails to meet WP:NHOCKEY or WP:GNG. There is an objection on the talk page by the page creator who seems to think they meet the requirements, however pre-season games are not considered actual games so they don't meet the requirement as many non-notable players play in pre-season games. As for awards, you miss the link at the bottom of NHOCKEY that lists the leagues that that comment applies to. -DJSasso (talk) 16:22, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Add College athletes Shortcut: WP:NCOLLATH College athletes and coaches are notable if they have been the subject of non-trivial media coverage beyond merely a repeating of their statistics, mentions in game summaries, or other WP:ROUTINE coverage. Examples would include head coaches, well-known assistant coaches, or players who:

Due to the subjects accomplishments and notoriety he should be included. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.212.185.209 (talk) 16:24, 2 February 2015 (UTC) He does satisfy the following with the Ontario Junior Hockey League's Stouffville Spirit... 4. Achieved preeminent honors (all-time top ten career scorer, First Team All-Star, All-American) in a lower minor league, in a major junior league, or in a major collegiate hockey league (Note: merely playing in a major junior league or major collegiate hockey is not enough to satisfy inclusion requirements); — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.212.185.209 (talk) 16:22, 2 February 2015 (UTC) PAGE ]]) 22:15, 4 February 2015 (UTC) PAGE ]]) 21:23, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Add NHL pre-season games are NHL sanctioned and as a result qualifies the subject for inclusion173.212.185.209 (talk) 22:32, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The subject did participate in NHL preseason games (which are NHL-sanctioned) while attending the Columbus Blue Jackets 2007 main camp, and as such satisfies another inclusion requirement.
 * Reply: To address 173.212.185.209's points: First, while I've no idea what he means by "NHL-sanctioned" -- the National Hockey League using no such terminology for their games -- the fact is that only official regular-season or playoff games count towards any of the criteria. Of course many non-notable players appear in training camp games, but we don't consider them notable thereby. Secondly, NHOCKEY sets forth its own criteria for judging the notability of collegiate athletes, which NCOLLATH does not supercede, in part because a one-size-fits-all approach is singularly ill-suited.  For instance, United States Division I collegiate hockey is much more notable than Canadian collegiate hockey, which operates at little beyond club level.  In any event, the news link he cited is the exact time of routine match coverage explicitly debarred by WP:ROUTINE as counting towards notability, and mentions Jarman only fleetingly, instead of the "significant coverage" the GNG requires. Thirdly, the Ontario Junior Hockey League is not a "major junior" league, and cannot be considered under Criterion #4, even if Jarman had achieved "preeminent honors" there, which the sources in the article do not support. Finally, I'm afraid that "I've seen him play" forms no part of notability criteria; Wikipedia operates on verifiable fact from reliable sources.   Ravenswing   05:29, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Reply: The subject played not only NHL pre-season games but also regular season games. The subjects accomplishments are much more notable and impressive than a number of hockey players who have accepted articles on Wikipedia (many included in this Encyclopedia played for some obscure national team and never played NHL, AHL nor were ever OHL or NHL draft picks, the subject was and did). The subject did gain national media attention, it was in 2007 so perhaps your memory is misleading you. The nature of these arguments are somewhat subjective, however the subject did satisfy WP:NCOLLATH 3. Gained national media attention as an individual, not just as a player for a notable team. The goal made UMass school history and NCAA history.
 * Comment According to the NHL's own statistics, he never played a single regular season NHL game. His game-winning goal was a single event, and the coverage was of the event, not him as a player. Coverage of that one goal falls under the Subjects notable only for one event policy. --Ahecht ([[User_talk:Ahecht|'''TALK
 * Reply: I disagree, by way of that goal and event Kevin satisfies 1. Have won a national award (such as those listed in Template:College Football Awards or the equivalent in another sport), or established a major Division I (NCAA) record. In the sense that he set a major record within the school and NCAA hockey. Embrace his accomplishments Wiki editors, its impressive!  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.30.26.128 (talk) 00:48, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment: That criteria clearly states it must be a national award or a major division 1 record. Setting a school record is quite a bit less important than a national or league record. And besides, what record did he set exactly? Scoring an important goal is not "setting a record" -- all goals are worth 1 point in the record books. --Ahecht ([[User_talk:Ahecht|'''TALK


 * Add Satisfies WP:NHOCKEY 4. Achieved preeminent honors (all-time top ten career scorer, First Team All-Star, All-American) in a lower minor league, in a major junior league, or in a major collegiate hockey league (Note: merely playing in a major junior league or major collegiate hockey is not enough to satisfy inclusion requirements); His overtime goal is a UMass Minutemen ice hockey record and NCAA record that still stands to this day. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.15.52.96 (talk) 00:47, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
 * And nowhere in those criteria does it mention having a record is enough for an article. That being said even if a player meets these criteria they still need to meet WP:GNG which he does not. -DJSasso (talk) 19:20, 4 February 2015 (UTC)n


 * Add The subjects accomplishments within the sport merit acceptance within Wikipedia. As noted by a number of users above, the subject does satisfy a number of criteria within WP:NHOCKEY and WP:NCOLLATH. As a member of Wikipedia and an avid user I'd certainly like to see the subject accepted, the subject is well deserving of it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wiki contributor 100 (talk • contribs) 00:57, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
 * By "a number of users" do you mean the various IPs you used? -DJSasso (talk) 19:21, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/hockey/2007-03-23-ncaa-hockey-roundup_N.htm, http://espn.go.com/nhl/player/_/id/4889/kevin-jarman, http://icehockey.wikia.com/wiki/list_of_Columbus_Blue_Jackets_draft_picks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.30.26.128 (talk) 00:40, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete. As Ravenswing notes, there really only seems to be routine coverage and trivial mentions. He is, ultimately, merely one of a thousand people who's dreams died prematurely.  It is a shame, but I do not see a pass of NHOCKEY, and certainly not one of GNG. Resolute 20:00, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Add. One of only four Stouffville Spirit players to have ever been drafted by the NHL (http://www.draftsite.com/nhl/cchl/stouffville/spirit/617/) and youngest UMass Minutemen division 1 ice hockey player to have ever been drafted by the NHL (http://www.umassathletics.com/sports/m-hockey/mtt/kevin_jarman_57227.html). As a point of reference for consideration for inclusion, Daniel Spivak has his own article within Wikipedia, Daniel played for the Israel national team, division 1 and "AA" pro hockey. Certainly impressive in its own right. However, Daniels accomplishments fall short of Kevin's. Kevin played hockey at the highest level and was an NHL draftee, set a division 1 school record, et cetera. The point being there's a number of professional hockey players who have accepted articles within Wikipedia whose accomplishments within the sport fall short of Kevin's. Certainly, Kevin is well deserving of acceptance and inclusion. I would disagree with the above mentioned comments, Kevin does satisfy a number of criteria within both WP:NHOCKEY and WP:NCOLLATH, as subjective as some of the criteria may be I believe he does meet the requirements. I nominate him for acceptance and inclusion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.30.26.128 (talk) 00:21, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Add http://sports.yahoo.com/highschool/hockey/recruiting/player-Kevin-Jarman-21084, http://pointstreaksites.com/view/ojhl/news-21/news_143940 http://theahl.com/stats/player.php?id=1948   http://www.uscho.com/stats/player/mid,8800/kevin-jarman/, http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8470696, http://fantasynews.cbssports.com/fantasyhockey/players/playerpage/1282432/kevin-jarman
 * All of those are just sports profiles. None of them are articles that talk in depth about him enough to meet the requirements of WP:GNG. -DJSasso (talk) 03:01, 5 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete: The only vote for keeping the article is from the same person who has an admitted personal connection with the subject of the article. He clearly fails WP:GNG and WP:NHOCKEY. Deadman137 (talk) 19:48, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Add I have no personal connection with the subject whatsoever. I know of him and his athletic notoriety, that's all.
 * Add I do not know Kevin personally. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.15.52.96 (talk) 02:00, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
 * So when you said on Ahecht's talk page on February 1, 2015 and I quote "I've reached out via email and asked him about this, he's unsure as to why its not documented on hockeydb or NHL.com, but he was aware that both bodies incorrectly documented this activity." That didn't establish a relationship of some kind exists? Deadman137 (talk) 02:37, 6 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Add As a hockey enthusiast and having seen him play both at UMass and with the Columbus Blue Jackets system, I find it odd and disturbing that his article is being considered for deletion. He reached the pinnacle of Ice Hockey and accomplished some impressive and remarkable things along the way. He reached a level that only a small minority ever do, perhaps your criteria for inclusion needs to be seriously rethought and reconsidered. His accomplishments outlined in his article (OHL and NHL draftee, signed and played within an NHL team, record and history setter at a major division 1 program, et cetera) certainly are sufficient for nomination and inclusion within this encyclopedia. Without a doubt, he qualifies to be included within Wikipedia, he's a well known individual within the hockey ranks and his accomplishments speak for themselves. Much of this criteria is subjective in nature and he satisfies a number of the criteria as outlined above. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.15.52.96 (talk) 02:20, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment: (sighs, rolling his eyes) I'd add the warning template about AfD not being a head count, but I don't think that'd deter the sock/meatpuppet anon IP flurry one bit, and it's not as if the closing admin's going to pay attention to their nonsense anyway.   Ravenswing   03:51, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.