Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Khae Rai Intersection


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Although numerically, the deletes outnumber the keeps, AFD is not a vote. Few of the delete comments have detailed policy based rationales supporting them, and early on in the AFD there is confusion as to if the article is about the intersection or the neighborhood defined by the intersection. By the end of the AFD it becomes apparant that the article is about both, and the word "intersection" in the article title is a poor attempt at disambiguation. Although the present iteration of the article only cites 2 sources, keep proponents have found several promising potential sources, but language is a barrier to properly evaluating them under reliable source criteria and including them in the article. In short - neither the delete nor the keep comments make a convincing argument, so I'm closing this as no consensus. ~  ONUnicorn (Talk&#124;Contribs) problem solving
 * Post closing comment - I have added a Cleanup AfD tag to the article. To be clear, the specific concerns identified in the AFD that the article requires cleanup to address are the article title, and the addition of more sources (ideally by someone fluent in the language). ~  ONUnicorn (Talk&#124;Contribs) problem solving 20:46, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

Khae Rai Intersection

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Reviewed during New Page Patrol. No indication of wp:notability under GNG or SNG. Also not a practice to keep under wp:outcomes. This is an intersection of two roads. Previously deleted North8000 (talk) 17:45, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Transportation and Thailand. Shellwood (talk) 17:52, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete It would have to take something extraordinary for a road intersection to be notable. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 00:57, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment Is there a notability guideline for road intersections that we can check? I'm not saying WP:WHATABOUTX, but there are many articles in Category:Road junctions by country. It would be nice if we can discuss based on principles. By the way, I couldn't find the history of it being previously deleted unless you mean redirect being deleted to make way for move? Aithus (talk) 09:59, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment: No, this had never been deleted. The nom's claim is incorrect. --Paul_012 (talk) 14:25, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  10:07, 8 June 2022 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Guerillero  Parlez Moi 08:59, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment: For articles like this, their main scope is usually the neighborhood known after the intersection, rather than the traffic infrastructure itself. The sources already cited in the article go in-depth into the junction and neighbourhood's name and history, and its long-standing congestion problems and past projects aimed at addressing the issue have been widely reported on. That said, I wouldn't be against merging without prejudice to Highway 302 (Thailand), seeing as there's not much content that would warrant covering them separately. --Paul_012 (talk) 14:25, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Make that a keep or merge without prejudice. --Paul_012 (talk) 12:15, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment The intersection will be the terminal of 2 different mass transit routes (Brown - construction not yet started, and Pink lines - to be in service late 2022) and passed by another (Purple line - already in service), is the location of Nonthaburi province administration center, and the location of Ministry of Public Health. It's a major interchange there. --Lerdsuwa (talk) 03:58, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Change the above Comment to Keep and rename to Khae Rai so it can cover the neighborhood. But note that there is no district, subdistrict, road, or any other thing with the original name Khae Rai except the intersection. So the neighborhood name actually comes from the intersection name. And many businesses, buildings have Khae Rai attached to their name. Google search for its Thai names gives 1M hits though a small fraction of them refers to a different Khae Rai in another province. --Lerdsuwa (talk) 02:20, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Khae Rai is currently a disambiguation page, with the other item being the subdistrict in Samut Sakhon. I guess there's a case to be made that this subject is the primary topic, but I didn't move it there before as the original author seemed to think differently. --Paul_012 (talk) 09:43, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Change that again to Keep --Lerdsuwa (talk) 05:02, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete. The obvious caveats about searching for foreign language subjects applies, but I wasn't able to find any evidence that there's significant coverage of the intersection itself. As mentioned by Paul_012, it's extremely rare for any intersection articles to exist because the content makes much more sense in other places—either the road, or the neighborhood the intersection is located. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs  talk 17:36, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
 * That's not what i said. In Thailand, the neighbourhood where the section is located is the intersection. See for example the articles under Category:Road junctions in Bangkok, which are all neighbourhoods and junctions. This article is titled as such due to disambiguation requirements. --Paul_012 (talk) 09:43, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 *  This AfD discussion includes a proposal for merger to Highway 302 (Thailand),,, , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , and a notice of the proposed merger was posted to on June 22. As such, this AfD discussion may need to be extended or relisted to incorporate input from.


 * Lean keep We really need someone who can read Thai for this one. I don't, but I tried doing a Google Books search for "แคราย" and it turned up a fair number of results, so it looks like there might be significant coverage out there for this topic. The best I could do is copy-paste the "found inside" text into Google Translate (I can't actually highlight within the ebook itself) so my ability to judge the quality of the content is severely limited. Some of the books are definitely fiction, and others appear to only mention "แคราย" in passing. But, again, I can't read Thai, so these may very well be more than passing mentions and I'm just unable to tell.


 * Among the "passing mentions" that might turn out to have worthwhile information: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) seem to talk about transportation and infrastructure-related developments in the area; 4 in particular seems the most likely to have useful content since it describes it as "a location that has high demand for apartments". This one (7) seems incomprehensible to me, but its page on Google Books lists it as "history" and "military" and it seems to be nonfictional. This one (8) looks like just a passing mention, but it's talking about history as well so it might be useful. Similarly, this one (9) mentions an explosion at a police station here in 2007, although that might be all it says about Khae Rai. This one (10) might be a false positive but it seems to be talking about transportation and economic activity in a "Khae district" (no "Rai", which is why I think it might be a false positive). This one (11) mentions that the "Khae Rai - Bang Bua Thong area" is getting a lot of real estate/business development, but again it might be referring to a different Khae Rai. This one (12) is talking about the name but, like the rest of these, I can't tell if it's meaningful coverage or not.


 * Then these (13) (14) (15) (16) don't seem very promising - they look like mere passing mentions - but along with some others they seem to indicate that the name "Khae Rai" also applies to the whole area. Finally, this one (17) just seems incomprehensible; I'm not sure if it might be useful or not.


 * But I want to draw attention to a couple of sources that definitely do seem like more than passing mentions. This one (18) seems to be talking about the place's name and the history behind it. Meanwhile, this one (19) is talking about the place's history and how it used to have fewer roads connecting, etc. The content in both cases is already in our article (and already cited; to other sources) so these sources aren't really useful in establishing notability, but it indicates that at least some substantial coverage is out there.


 * Again, I don't think we can really make an informed decision here without someone who can read Thai. There are at least a couple of sources providing substantial coverage on this topic, but I can't tell if any of these other potential sources really count as significant. Some of them seem promising, so I think there's probably enough sources covering the topic to establish notability, but it's beyond my ability to properly evaluate this. 3 kids in a trenchcoat (talk) 05:49, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
 * (1) to (5) refers to the Pink Line, for which the first phase runs between Khae Rai and Min Buri. Hence the line is often referred to in the media as Pink Line (Khae Rai-Min Buri) or Pink Line Khae Rai-Min Buri secion. (7) talked about a Coup d'état with military seized the Thaicom satellite control station at the intersection and then people seized it back. (8) just about the author lived in the intersection area. (9) one of terrorist bombing around 0:00 on New Year was at the intersection. (10) talked about the Pink Line mentioned above. (11) Google only shows some of the matches for me (not the Khae Rai-Bang Bua Thong which is indeed the correct Khae Rai) so can't decide. (12) is about calling place name using Khae Rai as example. Google only shows a few lines of text so not sure how much the coverage is there. Haven't looked at others. --Lerdsuwa (talk) 02:48, 24 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Delete this barely-sourced item about a street intersection, of all things. Doczilla  @SUPERHEROLOGIST 06:32, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
 * See my above comment. The article is about the neighbourhood and major road intersection, which share the name. The article is titled as such due to disambiguation requirements. --Paul_012 (talk) 09:16, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete. Fails WP:SIGCOV.4meter4 (talk) 18:22, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete Coverage is WP:ROUTINE for a road intersection. MrsSnoozyTurtle 01:29, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete Mediocre to the extreme. Fails WP:SIGCOV and WP:ROUTINE.   scope_creep Talk  13:23, 27 June 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.