Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Khatm ul Awliya


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. Deletion concerns have been addressed. Sources have been added establishing the subject's notability, and the article has been cleaned up. (non-admin closure) Alpha_Quadrant    (talk)  02:40, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

Khatm ul Awliya

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The article was originally speedy deleted as a copyright violation of. Its still a close copy, but probably not a copyright violation. However the article is unsourced and thus unverifiable for readers. It is also a personal point of view and seems to be a very narrow and minor theory within Islam; though I'm happy to be disabused of this belief if incorrect. If this is a notable viewpoint, it needs proper sourcing both of the theory and its impact. Sparthorse (talk) 08:42, 4 November 2011 (UTC)


 * I've rewritten the article (no copyvio any more), added citations and links. It is a major concept in Sufism, the mystical branch of Islam. MOVE to English "The Seal of the Saints" would be helpful. Chiswick Chap (talk) 09:28, 15 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Islam-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 17:23, 4 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep and move to the English name: . Phil Bridger (talk) 22:26, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete - Lacks WP:RS to meet WP:GNG … none of the Sheiks mentioned in the article are notable enough to have articles here. Happy Editing! &mdash;  16:22, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep - Nice recovery. :-) &mdash; 72.75.56.190 (talk) 00:45, 16 November 2011 (UTC)


 * And what about the hundreds of reliable sources found by the Google Books and Scholar searches that I linked? Phil Bridger (talk) 17:33, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
 * And what about it looking like a WP:COPYVIO of this (from the first search list) before I removed the honorifics? Most appear to be mentions or references to it, not "significant coverage" of or about it … that it exists (and may be purchased online) is not in doubt; it's the notability that is in question, i.e., it is still unsourced. &mdash; 68.239.65.132 (talk) 20:23, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Our article is about the more-than-a-millennium-old concept of the seal of the saints, not about a modern book that can be purchased online. I can't believe that you actually looked at the Google Books results before claiming that they are do not have significant coverage, for example the second result is a book from an academic publisher with a chapter about the subject and the third, from a university publisher, has five pages of coverage. Many similar sources can be found by looking further. Notability is about the existence of sources, not the current state of the article. Phil Bridger (talk) 21:58, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, v/r - TP 02:52, 15 November 2011 (UTC)




 * KEEP, Rename, Rescue - this is the clearest 'Rescue' candidate I've seen in a while.The "Seal of the Saints" is a key concept in the writings of Ibn al Arabi (1165 - 1240), a leading Islamic thinker and spiritual teacher. This article should be about the concept, linked to Ibn al Arabi, and sourced by reference to the many books about al Arabi's thinking and in particular the "Seal of the Saints". The material is difficult, at least for non-muslims, but it is classic and undeniably Notable. There are heaps of sources. I will tag for Rescue now, add some sources, and do a bit of wikifying. It's a classic lesson in looking behind what an article says to what it's actually about before deleting. And perhaps a lesson in cultural sensitivity, too - easier to trash what you don't trouble to understand. Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:56, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
 * OK, I've cleaned up the article - still pretty sketchy, wikified, added some refs. If you can help, please do! Chiswick Chap (talk) 09:03, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep but move to English "The Seal of the Saints" with redirect from the Arabic. This is a major concept in Sufism, the mystical branch of Islam. --DThomsen8 (talk) 15:17, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep per Chiswick Chap, I have some books on this I'll slowly improve the referencing Tachfin (talk) 16:16, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment Yes, Tachfin and other editors, improve the referencing from books, but do it fairly promptly, so the article does not get deleted because of referencing issues. --DThomsen8 (talk) 19:38, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep I agree with what others have said. This seems to be significant and references have been found.   D r e a m Focus  12:29, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep Actually the first sufis who write the book called "Khatm ul Awliya" was Hakim al-Tirmidhi, and Ibn Arabi wrote a reply to this book --Lokamaya (talk) 04:50, 17 June 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.