Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Khodanur Lojei


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. This article has received lots of attention since it was first nominated on 11/14/22 and I believe the consensus is now to Keep it. Also, influencing my opinion is the office action on the editor who voiced the solitary Delete opinion but that is a minor factor in this closure. I just thought I'd note it since this is a rather politically charged article. Liz Read! Talk! 23:55, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

Khodanur Lojei

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

This is a WP:BIO1E, where this individual is notable more or less only for dying in the 2022 Zahedan massacre that occurred during the Mahsa Amini protests. In these cases, our guideline notes that The general rule is to cover the event, not the person and [w]hen the role played by an individual in the event is less significant, an independent article may not be needed, and a redirect is appropriate. This is one of nearly one-hundred people to die at that protest, and being one among many killed does not appear to be a significant role in the massacre. As such, this article should be blanked-and-redirected to 2022 Zahedan massacre, where the article subject is mentioned in appropriate depth. —  Red-tailed hawk (nest) 03:06, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People and Iran. —  Red-tailed hawk  (nest) 03:06, 15 November 2022 (UTC)


 * The person is not any casualty of the protests. The cruelty of his killing has become a symbol in Iran. Many protesters, celebrities, and players have showed symbols sympathizing with him. The only thing the article needs is more pictures and descriptions. Nicxjo (talk) 11:09, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

Relisting comment: Relisting. Please do not move, merge or redirect the article while it is still being discussed here. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 04:24, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep. Although there have been many casualties in these protests, I am leaning towards what Nicxjo is saying here. The article can be improved, and there is enough media coverage to make this notable. Fad Ariff (talk) 13:11, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Redirect to 2022 Zahedan massacre as per nom. Case of WP:BIO1E.  Outside of this, they are not notable. Onel 5969  TT me 14:10, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep, the article needs to be improved but it has enough notability and media coverage to be on Wikipedia. Iranwatcher (talk) 00:40, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Redirect to 2022 Zahedan massacre per nom, this also falls under WP:BLP1E, which additionally states that The significance of an event or the individual's role is indicated by how persistent the coverage is in reliable sources. There are indeed numerous WP:RS but almost all of them are exclusively from the last week, I don't think this topic meets the guideline that there would be persistent coverage. I would appreciate some of the keep votes to articulate how exactly WP:BIO1E is passed, as vague statements of media coverage and assertions of notability being passed are unconvincing.  VickKiang  (talk)  08:36, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep, In my opinion WP:BIO1E is not applicable since Khodanur Lojei's image became a protest symbol after his death (which is supported in the BBC News citations; and as per Nicxjo). This article needs more clean up, more citations (as per Iranwatcher and others), but clean up is not a reason to delete. Part of the issue is the many variations of name (due to transliteration issues), it makes sourcing in English more labor intensive. PigeonChickenFish (talk) 21:28, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep. The article will improve by time. More references will be added. Khodanour Lojei has become a symbol for protesters in Iran. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Listenwithme (talk • contribs) 13:47, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment, some clean up efforts have been made and more citations were added to the article since the nomination. PigeonChickenFish (talk) 22:03, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Delete Not notable in any way, shape, or form. 4nn1l2 (talk) 04:12, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment, it meets WP:GNG. There are currently 17 citations, many of which are large news sources. PigeonChickenFish (talk) 20:45, 24 November 2022 (UTC)


 * No, most of those sources are just crap. CBS does not mention him at all. BBC Persian (which is not on par with BBC World) just mentions him briefly. Better not to talk about Saudi affiliated sources at all. 4nn1l2 (talk) 00:33, 25 November 2022 (UTC)


 * The citations (see article for all of the links), include many BBC Persian articles, as well as CBS News, The Art Newspaper, Việt Báo Daily News, Hyperallergic, The Times of India, ANF, Radio Zamaneh, Voice of America, and Iran International, among others. These meet RS source requirements for Wikipedia (despite any theories about Saudi Arabia). PigeonChickenFish (talk) 04:23, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This user has been banned as an office action Ladsgroupoverleg 15:29, 6 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Sources such as CBS should not be used to establish notability of this subject. This particular source is not even about the subject of the article, and does not mention his name even briefly. Iran International is an antagonistic Saudi-affiliated TV channel which should not be considered reliable for Iran-related subjects, considering the deep enmity between Iran and Saudi: Iran–Saudi Arabia proxy conflict. If English Wikipedia (as a whole) considers that a reliable source, then I feel sorry for it. That's all I can do. 4nn1l2 (talk) 04:52, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
 * His name is mentioned (keeping in mind various spellings of his name) and if you review the requirements for WP:GNG, having many sources mention someone is one type of notability. The theory of "Iran International as an antagonistic Saudi-affiliated TV channel" is addressed in that WP article as Iranian government-backed propaganda. CBS News is an American-owned news company. You may be correct in your theory, but right now they do not appear supported in fact-based documentation. PigeonChickenFish (talk) 08:52, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
 * That CBS article has nothing to do with Khodanur Lojei. It's American origin is irrelevant. Have you read that article? 4nn1l2 (talk) 09:11, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

Relisting comment: Keep or redirect? Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star   Mississippi  04:02, 30 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Your right, the CBS News article is used to support the claim of 40 days of mourning, and not specifically Khodanur Lojei. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t belong in the article, or it is unreliable because it's American. That being said, there are 18 more citations that do mention him. PigeonChickenFish (talk) 09:16, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Mentioning isn't the same as WP:SIGCOV, especially if they are reporting on the same or similar story. It is common for multiple newspapers or journals to publish the same story, sometimes with minor alterations or different headlines, but one story does not constitute multiple works. Several journals simultaneously publishing different articles does not always constitute multiple works, especially when the authors are relying on the same sources, and merely restating the same information.  VickKiang  (talk)  09:20, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Right, and they are not all mentioning the same story. There have been global protests related to Khodanur Lojei, many days/weeks after the initial event. PigeonChickenFish (talk) 09:23, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
 * While that is true, a couple of stories kind of cover a similar story, e.g., 1, 2 (e.g., Urban Light, 40 days of mourning, 15-year-old-girl event...), so I disagree these should be separately count as WP:SIGCOV. I also am not of the opinion that coverage in a few weeks would count towards sustained coverage that does not violate WP:BIO1E and meet If the event is highly significant, and the individual's role within it is a large one, but let's agree to disagree here.  VickKiang  (talk)  09:29, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Redirect most coverage seems tangential, the individual was at xyz event, so the story covers the event. We can infer what happened to the person, but there is no coverage about the person. No reliable sources covering them as an individual; had they not passed away, they wouldn't merit an article. I don't see them as being any different than another protestor from what sources we have. Oaktree b (talk) 16:13, 30 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Keep WP:BIO1E is not applicable. The person's image became a protest symbol. Notability is there. Lightburst (talk) 00:20, 6 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Keep: Beside sources mentioned in the article, there are massive number of reliable sources talking about him in Persian, he became so famous that the search in google brings >280,000 results now. Ladsgroupoverleg 14:13, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
 * To be clear, I'm not saying the google search result is the reason for keep. I'm saying just by a search you can find many reliable sources about him. Basically any reliable news source in Persian that exists has covered him extensively (plus many English language sources).
 * I put some here, Factname (part of ASL19), Iran Intl, Radio Zamane, VOA, CBS, etc. Ladsgroupoverleg 20:28, 6 December 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.