Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kibu Denis




 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. After much-extended time for discussion, and a deeper look at sources, a consensus to keep has emerged. BD2412 T 15:28, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

Kibu Denis

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Doesn't meet notability. All refs are stats. Nswix (talk) 23:11, 2 April 2023 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗  plicit  00:24, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Sports, Football,  and Tanzania. Nswix (talk) 23:11, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Democratic Republic of the Congo-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 08:46, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 08:47, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. GiantSnowman 19:53, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep per new sources below. GiantSnowman 17:34, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Keep -, I found , , , , , , , , , , , and , among many many more sources. Clearly significant figure in Tanzanian football. Article needs improvement, not deletion. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 07:45, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * None of these are in English, so I can't comment of the substance of the articles, but if this is the calibre of article that counts for significant coverage, literally any player with a couple of mentions in local papers could be considered notable. Nswix (talk) 20:06, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete: BLP, fails GNG and BIO. Sources in article and BEFORE showed ROUTINE sports news, promo, stats, nothing from IS RS with SIGCOV addressing the subject directly and indepth. The above source are all ROUTINE sports news, nothing that shows subject meets N; normal everyday sports news does not show notability.  // Timothy :: talk  09:11, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment - Many of the sources are clearly not routine (for instance from three sources, titled "Who is Kibu Denis?", "The Kibu that carries the lion", and "Salute to Kibu Denis": "Kibu's journey started at Kumuyange FC, in Ngara, Kagere where he was playing in the Third Division League, he played and promoted to the Second Division League. Geita Gold FC in Geita liked him and needed his services so they signed him while they were playing in the First Division League. Mbeya City saw him in the Play Offs matches last season. Mbeya City at that time were fighting not to be relegated while Geita Gold FC themselves were fighting to go up to the Premier League. Mbeya City managed to stay in the Premier League after winning on aggregate. Kibu Denis' football journey continued after signing with Mbeya City. Kibu Denis participated for the first time by playing in the Tanzania Mainland Premier League. While he was in Mbeya City while playing for the first time in the Premier League, his team is not doing well in the league, it is currently fighting not to be relegated but Kibu Denis is lighting a fire", "KIBU Denis, since he joined Simba last season from Mbeya City, he has been among the players who get a chance to play in the first team under different coaches who have passed through Msimbazi and today he has revealed something that carries him. Kibu joined Simba, under French coach Didier Gomes who believed in him and gave him a chance and later Gomes left the team to be under Rwandan Thiery Hitimana who was also preparing Kibu's first team despite the coach staying in the team for a short time. Later came the Spaniard, Pablo Franco who used Kibu as a winger before he left and came Zoran Maki this season who despite staying for a short time was using him and now under Juma Mgunda the situation has continued like that", "As for Kibu, he ends the season as Simba's most important player. He is a player that some people do not accept. However, every day he continues to be an important player just because of his dedication. He is not a very talented player but he has compensated for his shortcomings because of his dedication. Simba is in a season that fans and leaders see as bad. The team bosses tried to bring back Clatous Chama in the squad but, Kibu has continued to be the most important player in the club despite his level dividing the fans and bosses of the team. For now you can also trust Kibu in front of Pape Sakho. You can trust Kibu in front of Chris Mugalu and others. It is possible that they have more knowledge than Kibu but Kibu is involved in more events because he is more dedicated. Something seems to be running behind him. Something that inspires him. He has lived in exile for a long time. I am told that he has lived a lot in refugee camps. Soccer is the game that has removed him from those camps and brought him to the nice hotels where he lives with his Simba team and the national team. Such a person cannot look back. He will do everything he can not to return to that life. We have players who are playing football because of their heritage houses. Others are playing because they are told they have great talent by fans. They see no reason to be active because they are told by the fans that football is like a bicycle. If you can drive you can't forget." etc etc)

Also, he is a young player with an ongoing career as a clearly significant figure in Tanzanian football and has an ongoing career in the Tanzanian national team and Tanzanian Premier League, both of which receive lots of media coverage.

On a side note, this pro deletion users comments make zero sense considering they voted keep for Articles for deletion/Felipe Ortiz (footballer), a footballer who has much less coverage of any kind, and that their most recent article (made in March 2023) is about a current Ukrainian photographer whose birth date is unknown and basically only has primary sources online... (which I am fine with, but trying to delete others articles with much more sources of any kind while creating those kinds of articles truly boggles the mind, the double standard makes no sense whatsoever). Article needs improvement, not deletion. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 20:18, 11 April 2023 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 04:38, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment. Does seem to be weakly notable, although the grammar and quality of the article is terrible. BeanieFan11 (talk) 20:45, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep - there's enough there in the sources provided by Das. For example, Binzubeiry, Meridian and Tanzania Web are all lengthy articles which discuss different aspects of Denis' career and certainly give him more than a trivial mention. I'm not familiar with the sources so perhaps someone will be able to prove that they are not WP:RS, in which case please let me know. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 21:57, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Bin Zubeiry Sports' website (binzubeiry.co.tz) indicates that it is a blog designed by DeveloperTz. There's no byline for the article linked above, so I suspect it's a WP:SPS we cannot use.
 * Meridianbet is a Belgrade-based online gaming company, which apparently has an affiliate in Tanzania, and both run internet portals that offer sports news (meridianbetsport.co.tz is the Tanzanian portal). There is a byline (we only get Dickson as the author's name though), and the portal doesn't appear to be self-published. I think we can use this one, and it's more in-depth than the others, so that's helpful.
 * Tanzania Web (tanzaniaweb.com) is hosting/re-posting an article originally from Mwanaspoti (mwanaspoti.co.tz), which identifies itself as a blog. There is no byline, and I think it's clear this is a SPS that we cannot use.
 * Overall, it doesn't look like there is SIGCOV for this footballer. Jogurney (talk) 02:09, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Keep - appears to be adequate sourcing available. ROUTINE is not applicable to people as it comes under the events notability guideline. Garuda3 (talk) 23:25, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
 * You know that's not true. NOTNEWS says: Wikipedia considers the enduring notability of persons and events. While news coverage can be useful source material for encyclopedic topics, most newsworthy events do not qualify for inclusion and Wikipedia is not written in news style. For example, routine news coverage of announcements, events, sports, or celebrities, while sometimes useful, is not by itself a sufficient basis for inclusion of the subject of that coverage. And NSPORT itself invokes ROUTINE: Local sources must be independent of the subject, and must provide reports beyond routine game coverage. JoelleJay (talk) 02:59, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep - the three sources called out by Spiderone appear to provide enough WP:SIGCOV to allow for a pass of WP:GNG.  Frank  Anchor  17:39, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete Weak keep - Article appears to fail be able to satisfy WP:GNG. The sources available are almost entirely from self-published sources, but The Guardian (Dar es Salaam) and Meridianbet Sport articles are not. The one that looks the most promising is the Meridianbet Sport June 2021 article titled Unamjua Kibu Denis? Tunakumegea Kidogo. Unfortunately, I don't think this is enough by itself. Jogurney (talk) 02:13, 25 April 2023 (UTC) Taken together with The Guardian's coverage, I think there is just enough to be SIGCOV. Jogurney (talk) 14:48, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * , I don't know how the many secondary sources above couldn't possibly be enough or what you mean by "self-published" (e.g. the second source is by Mwanachi, a Tanzanian newspaper), but even then, I have found, ("the striker who featured for Tanzania against Malawi in a friendly... has been an outstanding player for Mbeya City in the season that is about to end and his performance has generated interest"),  ("The muscular attacker rose to prominence once the footballer featured for Geita Gold FC in the 2020/21 Mainland Tanzania Premier League promotion/relegation playoffs fixtures against Mbeya City FC. Geita Gold FC that was then a First Division League side lost to Premier League's Mbeya City FC in the clashes, Kibu nevertheless impressed the latter that ultimately signed him. The attacker then proved to be a key player in the Mbeya-based squad as he linked with the rest of the outfit's players to see to it the club gets hold of its position in Premier League in 2020/21 season.Kibu thereafter won a call-up to the senior national team and he was then roped in by Simba SC") and  ("Denis has become part of the players that have failed to win the hearts of a host of Simba SC members and fans this season as the latter feel that the attacker is hardly a threat to opposing outfits' defenses whenever he gets a chance to play") among many many more sources. Even if he didn't somehow meet GNG, which he clearly does, using common sense, he is a young player with an ongoing career in the Tanzanian national team and Tanzanian Premier League, both of which receive lots of media coverage. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 06:06, 25 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Keep - the references listed above make it clear that he is notable. Nfitz (talk) 05:26, 26 April 2023 (UTC)


 * ''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.