Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kike San Martín (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Keeper |  76  16:31, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Kike San Martín
AfDs for this article: 
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advertisement The Banner talk 22:59, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep.- This biography seems to be adequately referenced, from a diverse selection of sources. Any concerns about the article being promotional can be addressed by copy editing. (As an aside, the nominator should take a little more care in explaining the nomination rather than using just the one word exclamation "advertisement".) - MrX 23:35, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I think my frustration got the better of me after seeing the maintenance templates being removed three times in rather short succession. That gave me the impression that it was advertising/selfpromo without any attempt from the other side to create a proper article. I am only human and have my bad days. The Banner talk 05:34, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Florida-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:25, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Argentina-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:25, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Photography-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:25, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:26, 14 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Comment. Yes, a lazy nomination. That said, it does seem to be a highly dubious article. I started by removing some promotional language, but after that took a quick look at two of the "sources". One didn't say what the article implied that it said (and looked like a crap source anyway). The other had a Spanish title, not the English one that was claimed for it; and the English title wasn't even a decent translation of the Spanish. (Even without a knowledge of Spanish, one can see that "El famoso fotógrafo de las estrellas" would be something like "The famous photographer of the stars", not "Kike San Martin, a famous photographer".) Votes to retain or delete this article should follow a thorough investigation of its claimed sources. (Neither knowing Spanish nor trusting Google Translate or similar, I don't claim to have checked the content of "El famoso fotógrafo de las estrellas".) -- Hoary (talk) 03:05, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Further comment. I fixed the two above. I thought I'd look at one or two more. The third one I looked at was http://www.hispanicmpr.com/2007/03/07/sbs-el-circulo-begins-new-season/, described (within quotation marks!) as "SBS El Circulo begins new season with pictures of Kike San Martin". Ha ha: The actual title is "SBS El Circulo begins new season". And it has a total of one (1) photo attributed to KSM, who is not otherwise mentioned. There are a short Fox News Latino story and a short Latin America Herald Tribune story cited, and at first sight this looks slightly impressive -- but actually they're the same (both deriving from EFE). So yes, The Banner is certainly onto something here. Meanwhile, MrX's statement that This biography seems to be adequately referenced, from a diverse selection of sources is becoming harder to believe. -- Hoary (talk) 08:31, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 * On request, user Fadesga checked the given sources. According to him, the sources back up what is claimed. The Banner talk 16:52, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Exactly. With the exception of some "branding" story, which is not clear, so The Banner suppressed that part. --Fadesga (talk) 17:32, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Well then, the sources in Spanish must be very different from those in English. I've already cut some crap "sourcing"; but the further I look, the more I find. New example Later, he also started working in the entertainment industry, with assignments like soap opera posters and shows for international TV networks like Telemundo, Univisión, Mega TV[reference 4] and América Tevé[...] Reference 4 is this. (Its actual title: "SBS El Circulo begins new season". Its fictional title when first introduced to the Wikipedia article [and for a long time thereafter]: "SBS El Circulo begins new season with pictures of Kike San Martin".) Now, I'd take this to mean that:
 * This source states that KSM was assigned to take photos for soap opera posters.
 * Telemundo, Univisión, Mega TV and América Tevé are international TV networks.
 * This source states that KSM did something [what?] for Telemundo, Univisión and Mega TV.
 * In reality, the source says nothing whatever about KSM, so (1) and (3) are out. Oh, except that he took the photo the article uses of the host of El Circulo. (Incidentally, it's competent but humdrum. In any reasonably sized town, we can find a photographer who will take a similar photo of you or me. Though the host is far better looking than I am.) The source says nothing whatever about Telemundo or Univisión. It does talk about Mega TV (which it also calls "MegaTV"): MegaTV reaches viewers in Broward, Miami-Dade and Monroe counties. So the claim that this is "an international TV network" gets no support either. -- Hoary (talk) 09:45, 17 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete almost a speedy delete under G11 promotional. He probably is borderline notable, though I am in some doubt about whether the sources are essentially public relations. But the style the article is written in is so unacceptable and the intent so entirely promotional that the only thing to do with this is to remove it and start over. I'm basing my delete on the grounds that when a promotional article would take extensive rewriting, it isn't worth it unless the subject is clearly notable. I wouldn't have said this a year or two ago, but the flood of promotionalism has increased. This isn't part of the new flood; it's been here a while, but our standards have risen.  DGG ( talk ) 21:28, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete. DGG has conveniently articulated for me what I had been thinking, or something close to it. I regret my inability to read material in Spanish. But for every "source" in English I've looked at, the source has at best said something that's not incompatible with the aggrandizing use made of it in the article. As for the matter of Wikipedia-style notability there's very little about him (and some of this looks as if it could be uncritically recycled PR puff); in terms of real-world notability there's no claim that he's won any award, that any of his work is held by a museum, that it's been discussed in any book about photography, that there's any book published of his work, or that his exhibition history extends to more than one in 22 parts of a single exhibition. -- Hoary (talk) 00:45, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment. The article was created by User:Misty2010 (contributions), and worked on by User:Misty2011. The latter has created a number of bio articles, most recently Leonardo Rocco (creation). He's been the only substantive contributor to the article on Rocco, from which I quote: Rocco recognizes that his passion, enthusiasm, energy, commitment and strong work ethic have allowed him to capture the attention of perfectionists and this is reflected in his celebrity clientele. His clients seek him when making a change to their image and the driven stylist that attains his inspiration from film, people on the street, shows, and other professionals, manages to consistently satisfy the exquisite tastes of those that request his services. (I'm about to remove this flatus.) The article on Rocco is illustrated with three photos, each attributed (with OTRS confirmation) to "Horacio Cambeiro", clicking on which takes the reader to Misty2011. Wikipedia has an article on Horacio Cambeiro, who is described as (A) "an Argentine-born American journalist, a radio and television presentator [sic]", and (B) "Broadcast journalist / Author / Aviator / Pilot". The article was created by User:Misty2010 and later worked on by User:Misty2011. En:WP seems to have a pile of promotional articles by Cambeiro. -- Hoary (talk) 01:31, 18 March 2013 (UTC) .... PS no, the article on Rocco is so grotesque that I changed my mind and sent it to AfD. -- Hoary (talk) 02:10, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.