Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kikeout Mountain




 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep and rename to the current name. Consensus has clearly developed since relisting following the provision of additional evidence. BD2412 T 23:34, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Kikeout Mountain

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

WP:ONEEVENT, only notable for its "unusual" name.}} Liam Plecak (talk) 08:58, 3 November 2023 (UTC) Relisting comment: Relisting discussion. As pointed out, the nominator is a sockpuppet. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 09:13, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Articles for deletion/Log/2023 November 3.  —cyberbot I   Talk to my owner :Online 09:15, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Geography and New Jersey.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 10:16, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
 * It's not really that. It's that it doesn't seem to be true from article title at the top to non-functional GNIS link at the bottom.  The National Map has a Kakeout Mountain at this location.  And a 1960 Master Plan of the Borough of Kinnelon, New Jersey has Kakeout in its names, too; so there's serious doubt that this was ever true, including in the 1980s.  Everything in this article seems to be unverifiable.  Uncle G (talk) 18:49, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I did get into GNIS on this: it lists Kikeout as an invalid name, along with another. This is an area where the topos go way back, and interestingly, the oldest one say "Kakeout"; then the feature name disappears for a while, and when ti reappears, it is now "Kikeout" and stays so for the rest of the series. Mangoe (talk) 13:14, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
 * And yet the record for feature 877559 says "Kakeout Mountain". Uncle G (talk) 12:49, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Note created the article, so perhaps he can provide some details? I've blocked the nominator as a cross-wiki sock, and they failed to notify Gilliam of this AfD.--  Ponyo bons mots 20:09, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment There are many, many references to Kikeout Mountain on newspapers.com. I have not analyzed whether this amounts to sufficient coverage needed to establish notability, but there is no doubt this is a real place. Jacona (talk) 19:07, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep. Far from one event, George Washington visited Kikeout Mountain, there was a reservoir built here (Kikeout Reservoir) which resulted in quite a bit of coverage, in 1897 gold was allegedly found on Kikeout Mountain, and it goes on and on. There's plenty of coverage. While not required, it is highly advisable to check newspapers.com for US locations as part of WP:BEFORE. I have clipped a few of these, hopefully will find time to post some of them here, but please check for yourself! The deletion rationale of WP:ONEEVENT may or may not apply to a geographic feature, but it is not at all applicable to this article. Jacona (talk) 19:21, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Comment. this sheds some light on the name change. Jacona (talk) 12:14, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Not for me, as I don't have access, and you haven't cited anything about the source to find it. The GNIS record for feature 877559 says "Kakeout Mountain" and dates it to 1979-09-08, which is before the supposed fuss about it being changed from "Kikeout" to "Kakeout" in 1986.  So we've got a couple of journalists talking about a mountain and a road, and the actual 1960s borough plan, the National Map, and even the GNIS record to which this is sourced all saying "Kakeout" all along; which rather casts doubt on the reliability of the sources that say it was changed from "Kikeout" to "Kakeout", on which almost all of which this article content is based. I finally located the NorthJersey article using the Wayback Machine (which points to non-existent archives in several snapshots).  It's very confusing, apparently mixing and matching letters to the editor in 1986 with a newsgroup post in 2005.  But that sources the name change to the newsgroup post, and places it "after World War II".  Google Groups doesn't turn up a newsgroup post, but there's a Rich Dean, erstwhile emergency services dispatcher (xe states) posting on Facebook, which is basically non-searchable. So we have an article, starting off at Special:Diff/645570523 with a name that isn't in the records from at least the 1960s onwards, and isn't on the National Map today, and we're basing most of this "controversy", and most of the article, on 1 letter to the editor of a local newspaper written by Albert G. Hotkins (whoever that is, NorthJersey doesn't say) decades after World War II.  And Facebook posts. I think that we're woefully misinforming readers, here, with stuff that hasn't been verifiably true for 60 years, and 1 angry letter to the editor inviting people to join an apparently 1-person local pressure group in 1986. Uncle G (talk) 12:49, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Uncle G, there are several other sources that discuss the name change on newspapers.com. If you don’t have access, you can get it at the Wikipedia library. Access to newspapers.com is available free to Wikipedians with a certain number of edits and no active blocks. — Jacona (talk) 12:58, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep per Jacona. Interesting (and reported) things have occurred there. Clarityfiend (talk) 23:57, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep per improvements during the AfD. –LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄ ) 02:00, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep and move to current name Kakeout Mountain: Passes GNG and WP:GEONATURAL. A redirect can take care of the former name.  // Timothy :: talk  11:54, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
 * TimothyBlue, I endorse the move. — Jacona (talk) 19:10, 18 November 2023 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.