Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kilian Elkinson


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Shereth 17:19, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Kilian Elkinson

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Football player who fails WP:ATHLETE as he has never played in a fully professional league. Has already been deleted once (via prod) for same reason, but this time prod was removed with the argument "plays in reserve games - which consists entirely of professionals". However, past consensus is that reserve and academy matches do not count towards professional appearences. пﮟოьεԻ  5  7  10:35, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
 * This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football related deletions. пﮟოьεԻ   5  7  10:35, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete, delete, a thousand times delete – PeeJay 10:47, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep - as far as I know this "criteria" hasn't been applied to the Tier 1 MLS before. MLS reserve games are fully professional. It's a professional league with professional players.  Criteria met. Nfitz (talk) 16:12, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Can I ask what the link was meant to prove? There is nothing there saying that the MLS reserve league is fully pro. Also, why is there a difference between the MLS reserve league and the Premier League reserve league? If the latter does not confer notability onto players, the former definitely shouldn't. пﮟოьεԻ   5  7  16:34, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
 * From the link you can quickly see from the schedules and player lists, that everyone is professional. I confess I'm not familiar enough with the Premiere League's reserve division to comment on it.  The criteria for notability is that "Competitors who have competed in a fully professional league" and clearly this has been met; there's no exception listed in WP:ATHLETE for fully professional reserve leagues. Nfitz (talk) 06:19, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete - doesn't meet WP:ATHLETE. The Rambling Man (talk)  16:46, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Can you expand on how it doesn't meet WP:ATHLETE - as it seems pretty clear to me that it does meet WP:ATHLETE. Nfitz (talk) 06:20, 23 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom  Mardetanha  talk 20:19, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. GiantSnowman 00:28, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete Second team games don't count. If this gets allowed the floodgates are open. Wait till he makes his proper debut. Nick mallory (talk) 11:41, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete as per nom. --Jimbo[online] 17:23, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep - there is a difference between most reserve leagues in the world and the MLS reserve league. In countries like England and Scotland, the reserve league consists of many professional players, yes, but each team also plays youth players who have no professional contract, and thus we can rightly exclude them from being considered as "fully professional leagues". However, there is no such thing as a "non-professional" player in the MLS, just like there is no such thing as a "non-professional" player in Major League Baseball, the NFL, NBA, NHL, WNBA, or any comparable league. Every single player on any roster of any MLS team has a professional contract, and since the MLS reserve league consists of only MLS teams (as anyone who can comprehend English could figure out), it must therefore be, by definition, a "fully professional league". ugen64 (talk) 04:29, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete - no first team experience. Wait until he's made his first team debut. Bettia   (talk)  11:48, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete reserve teams are not first teams; recreate once/if he makes his first team debut. --Angelo (talk) 11:02, 25 June 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.