Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Killing of Sa'ad Muhammad Youssef al-Atrash


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. The argument for deletion is that this is a routine event (for this part of the world) with routine coverage. Accordingly, the "keep" opinions would need to argue that there are aspects of this events that make it more important and more likely to attract lasting coverage than other such events. Only the first two "keep" opinion makes such an argument, while the others don't address the argument for deletion. Still, this doesn't quite get us over the bar of rough consensus to delete, given that the "delete" opinions are also somewhat cursory.  Sandstein  07:17, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Killing of Sa'ad Muhammad Youssef al-Atrash

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Tragic, but all the normal coverage you'd expect of such an incident. No long-lasting impact. As per WP:NOTNEWS.  Onel 5969  TT me 16:04, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions.  Onel 5969  TT me 16:04, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Palestine-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 16:21, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

What makes this killing notable is that Amnesty investigated it and concluded that it was an extrajudicial killing. Patrick Leahy and ten other US lawmakers penned a letter asking it to investigate this killing and a handful of other killings. There was also some controversy as a video clip of al-Atrash body spread on social media, showing Israeli soldiers standing over him without providing medical aid.

It may also be instructive to consult prior AfD discussions about attacks and killings in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict:


 * Articles for deletion/Tapuah Junction stabbing (2010)
 * Articles for deletion/2011 Tel Aviv nightclub attack
 * Articles for deletion/2014 Jerusalem tractor attack (3rd nomination)
 * Articles for deletion/2015 Shvut Rachel shooting
 * Articles for deletion/2015 Gush Etzion Junction attack
 * Articles for deletion/2016 Tel Aviv knife attack
 * Articles for deletion/2016 Jerusalem shooting attack
 * Articles for deletion/2017 Halamish stabbing attack
 * Articles for deletion/2017 Yavneh attack (2nd nomination)
 * Articles for deletion/2017 Jerusalem Light Rail stabbing
 * Articles for deletion/Murder of Rina Shnerb
 * Articles for deletion/Bat Ayin ax attack
 * Articles for deletion/Killing of Sergeant Almog Shiloni

So it seems to me that there is a strong precedent to keep articles about this kind of violence. In this case, there are circumstances that makes the killing both notable and controversial. Im The IP (talk) 19:02, 22 October 2020 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete. Routine knife attack in which the attacker was killed, no real continuing coverage. Vici Vidi (talk) 07:31, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep To the contrary, the references cited by, particularly the United States congressional inquiry, demonstrate that it clearly falls outside of "normal" criminal activity. The sources in the article demonstrate significant coverage in independent, reliable sources.  Qualifies under both GNG and NCRIME. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 19:21, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   08:57, 31 October 2020 (UTC) *Delete Doesn't meet WP:DIVERSE so fails WP:NOTNEWS other articles AFDs that were presented by ImTheIP had large intentional coverage. --Shrike (talk) 19:37, 1 November 2020 (UTC)


 * The article has twelve sources, so it indeed meets WP:DIVERSE. One of which is Amnesty. Im The IP  (talk) 20:51, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
 * In those AFDs you brought there are reporting from WASHPO,NYTIMES and BBC. The partisan report from anti-Israeli organization don't count as reporting and there is a big question if it WP:DUE to include Shrike (talk) 10:22, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Here is a filmed [BBC interview] with Sa'ad al-Atrash's mother, thus proving that a diversity of sources exist. I don't think that will change your mind, but I hope the closing admin takes that fact into consideration (along with your prior voting record, evidenced by the articles I linked to). Im The IP  (talk) 14:31, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
 * This better but still not enough in my view I would prefer more sources from international WP:NEWSORG also it doesn't tell anything about the incident but rather gives first eye account which is more primary source --Shrike (talk) 16:51, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Al-Jazeera, BTselem, AFP. Im The IP  (talk) 11:41, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete. Got a little bit of new around the event and burial. Also was included, with other events, in Amnesty report. NOTNEWS, does not have SIGCOV. 11Fox11 (talk) 04:46, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep From Amnesty's reporting: In an especially egregious case, Israeli forces shot dead 19-year-old Sa’ad Muhammad Youssef al-Atrash in the Old City of Hebron as he attempted to retrieve an ID card at an Israeli soldier’s request on 26 October. The Israeli police labelled the incident an “attempted stabbing” but an eyewitness watching the events unfold from her balcony said he had posed no threat when he was shot. One of the soldiers had asked him for ID, and as he reached into his pocket to grab his card another soldier standing behind him shot him on his right side, she told Amnesty International. Im The IP  (talk) 20:53, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz Humbug! 22:29, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep Not a memorial, speaks to the illegal Israeli practice of extrajudicial execution, this being one of the more shameful examples of that. This case and others are part of a pattern that has attracted the attention of the UN, Amnesty, Israeli NGOs and even the usually forgiving United States.Selfstudier (talk) 18:26, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
 * To be fair al-Atrash likely was attempting to carry out an attack. A fact that, initially, was missed by Amnesty's investigation which contributed to the controversy. Im The IP  (talk) 06:59, 17 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete, per nom. This is really a case of WP:RECENTISM and, although IP had done a good job of making the case, an investigation by Amnesty International does change this analysis. —Brigade Piron (talk) 14:47, 14 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep The long list of similar discussions set out by IP above illustrate clearly that the notability of this article is equivalent to dozens of others across the encyclopaedia, on both sides of this depressing conflict. Onceinawhile (talk) 21:55, 14 November 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.