Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kimberly McClelland


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. WP:SNOW  MBisanz  talk 21:58, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Kimberly McClelland

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Contested prod. I have detailed my objections to the article here. The short version is that none of Ms. McClelland's chess achievements are notable. The claim that she won a national chess championship is simply not the case; she won a class section for players with a rating under 1600, which by definition has excluded all the strong and notable players. These class sections are in place to give less experienced players a chance to play against players of their own skill, not to determine a champion. Any tournament player can win a section like that on a good day. (I won a section like that in 2007.) Those who play for the championship enter a section where they can meet the strongest players, not a class section where the strongest players are barred from entering. Her peak rating of 1668 makes her a class "B" player in the United States, which is far below the master level (approximately 2400) where one can begin to consider a player as semi-professional. Regarding the film portrayal, IMDB confirms that Saycon Sengbloh played "Kimberly" in The Ditchdigger's Daughters, but I cannot see evidence that it is the same person, and even so, the role appears to be fairly minor. Sjakkalle (Check!)  06:13, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete per nominator. SyG (talk) 07:09, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Voorlandt (talk) 07:56, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete per nominator. Loosmark (talk) 09:19, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete per nominator. --DaQuirin (talk) 09:35, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete. The under 1600 section (restricted to low-rated players) of the US High School tournament is not a national championship.  Bubba73 (talk), 13:58, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Snow delete. Much as I deplore "per nom" !votes, in this case Sjakkalle's said everything that needs saying.— S Marshall   Talk / Cont  17:58, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Living people-related deletion discussions. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 00:01, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. In addition to everything above, from what I can find, most of the events depicted in The Ditchdigger's Daughters apparently took place before the subject was born, thus making it unlikely that she is the "Kimberly" portrayed in the movie. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 03:51, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete per nominator. We have deleted as non-notable articles about chessplayers far, far stronger than Ms. McClelland, including FIDE Masters Charles Weldon and Boris Baczynskyj (sorry, can't guarantee the spelling of that last one). Both of them had ratings of 2300 or so, placing them well into the top 1% of tournament players. Ms. McClelland's rating is perhaps in the top 20%. Krakatoa (talk) 03:58, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Our policy has been to delete ones similar to this person, e.g. Emily Bentley. Bubba73 (talk), 04:06, 8 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete While "the first African-American woman to win a national chess championship." is a good claim of notability, it fails to mention that she did not play in the highest class at the tournament (making the claim highly misleading). Players need to have at least an expert level rating before they should be considered for inclusion. - Mgm|(talk) 10:41, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, winning the under-1600 section of the National High School Championship is like winning the National High School Fish Championship. It's ridiculous to call that a "national title". Krakatoa (talk) 15:04, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Special note from the page's subject (Kimberly McClelland)
First, let me say how honored I am that a few people have now actually become aware of something that took place over 15 years ago (thanks, Shotcallerballerballer! :)). However, seeing as though the internet has now become a place for such "discoveries," allow me to set the record straight on a few things:

1. The tournament in question was never "professional," so the comments pertaining to that aspect of the page are irrelevant. The tournament was a scholastic championship (although my section was not) and there is never any monetary compensation for such tournaments. Additionally, I was much lower rated than my peers, in addition to being much younger, and was in no way "favored" to win such an event. However, if one were to contact the USCF about the result of the tournament, they will verify that the information is indeed accurate.

2. The fact that I was 12 years old at the time should speak volumes to those who have no idea as to the environment surrounding a black female in the chess world. There were many occasions where (white, male) players would call me a "n- b" (or some variation of the phrase) whenever I defeated them in either scholastic or professional play. As a ringer (as I was often called), I was repeatedly insulted and even threatened by players if I did not change my winning result on the scoresheet to reflect my "inferiority." So, I ask that this be taken into heavy consideration when determining the fate of this page, as well as the struggles faced by black female chess players in American society.

3. My brother, Shearwood McClelland, III, MD, deserves FAR more credit for his accomplishments in chess than I do. However, being FEMALE, I must say that there were very few others like me in any tournament I entered (and, as any tournament director can attest, the number of black females present at any tournament is usually fewer than three--particularly in the South), so in many respects, my brother experienced much less ostracism than I.

4. The fact that a black female took home 1st place in a national chess tournament should indeed be recognized in some way, regardless of whatever technicalities certain individuals may conjure up. Considering the activities of the usual 12-year-old black female, coming in first place in a national chess tournament before reaching 8th grade is certainly a noteworthy achievement--if for no other reason than for the next black girl to see that it can be done, despite all of the negativity/racism/sexism inherent in the chess world. But, as my grandfather said, "If you look back and think you did a whole lot then, you ain't doin' a damn thing now." And if winning my section is not "good enough" for Wikipedia, I'm glad it was good enough for both Stanford and Columbia's admissions committees.

5. Personally, having this page removed would serve my private life very well, as I have enjoyed my anonymity for the past 15 years and would very much like for that to continue. However, given that certain individuals have taken issue with my "claim to fame," I felt it important to "come out of hiding," so to speak and remind those who are likely not aware of either the context within which this event took place or the reasons why supporting (internet) information is currently unavailable. The fact still remains that chess was a doorway for me, a black female, to become a successful college and master's graduate, something that is rare for African-American slave-descendants; and those who are so quick to criticize the "realness" or validity of such a doorway exhibit behavior that is discouraging for any future black women who wish to follow a similar path. Additionally, groups such as The Chess Project should be ENCOURAGING black females' presence in chess, not attempting to remove the one shred of evidence that a black female finished first among over 1,000 participants--at 12 years of age. Anyone who says, "I can do that on a good day" is likely not a black female 12-year-old, nor has he likely faced any of her aforementioned challenges.

6. FYI, Saycon Sengbloh did play me in "The Ditchdigger's Daughters," but literary license was taken by the film's producer, Paris Qualles, to make her about 7 years older than I actually was at the time. (Information pertaining to "The Ditchdigger's Daughters" is currently unavailable for several reasons, primarily pertaining to legal/copyright issues.)

Zoette (talk) 22:34, 10 April 2009 (UTC)


 * The purpose of WikiProject Chess is not to "encourage black females to play chess", it is to develop and maintain encyclopedia articles about notable subjects in the area of chess. Bubba73 (talk), 16:04, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The tournament crosstable says that there were 165 players in her section, not "over 1,000". Bubba73 (talk), 16:07, 10 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree with Bubba73's first comment above. And he is correct that the tournament crosstable, which the article links to, shows that there were 165 players in her section. Sorry, being co-winner of a tournament consisting of players a bit above beginner level is not a notable achievement by Wikipedia standards. Krakatoa (talk) 10:50, 11 April 2009 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.