Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/King Middle School

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was keep (no consensus). THe vote is more or lest tied (17d, 17k on my count), at any rate no consensus. Sjakkalle (Check!)  10:53, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

King Middle School now moved to King Middle School, Portland, Maine
Delete. This article is about a non-notable school in Portland, Maine and provides little information. Unless notability is provided, this should be deleted. -Soltak 17:51, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Nearly contentless. --Scimitar parley 17:52, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
 * The article now has more content. Has your opinion on it changed? Factitious 08:06, August 9, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep can be expaning. --Maoririder 17:53, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Why should it be? -Soltak 17:56, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Because this is Wikipedia. Writing articles is what we are here to do. Why are you here? --Tony Sidaway Talk  20:58, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

*Merge with Portland Public Schools --Tim Pope 17:03, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete No indication of notability, and IMO middle schools are inherently non-notable except in quite exceptional caases. DES (talk) 18:01, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
 * No content and non-notable. Delete. AlbertR 18:13, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
 * It is not the case that the article has no content. Factitious 08:06, August 9, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete not notable. Dunc|&#9786; 18:23, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Strong keep per Wikipedia schools arguments. Y0u (Y0ur talk page) (Y0ur contributions) 18:44, August 3, 2005 (UTC) Addition- In my opinion, the arguments to keep are far more convincing than the arguments to delete. Y0u (Y0ur talk page) (Y0ur contributions) 18:56, August 3, 2005 (UTC)
 * May I also point out the alternative and change to a Strong Delete per Wikipedia schools arguments- (unsigned by Soltak)
 * Keep SchmuckyTheCat 18:54, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: You guys read the article, right? If not, it says "It is located in Portland, Maine. Right across the street from Deering Oaks." and adds an external link.  This isn't about pro-/anti- schoolism.  It's about the fact that this article is worthless at this point in time.--Scimitar parley 19:00, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
 * In light of your comment, I've slightly changed my vote. Y0u (Y0ur talk page) (Y0ur contributions) 19:03, August 3, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Not notable. --BradBeattie 19:02, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete &mdash; normally I'd vote keep, but this is little more than an external link. &mdash; RJH 19:08, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Then it should be expanded. I encourage the creator to expand it, if for no other reason than that it may save it from deletion. Y0u (Y0ur talk page) (Y0ur contributions) 19:23, August 3, 2005 (UTC)
 * The creator, Maoririder refuses to expand these stubs, and he's making a ton of them. I don't see why others should have to run around and clean up after him.--Scimitar parley 19:31, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Are you serious? We have hundreds of editors on Wikipedia, and you want to delete an article because *one particular guy* won't edit it? --Tony Sidaway Talk 20:51, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Actually, I wanted to delete the article because it lacked content. Additionally, if you check out his contributions, he's made a bunch of equally stunning single-sentence school stubs, and deleting one will encourage him to put effort into the other articles that he writes. My comment was intended to reply to Y0u's comment suggesting the original creator be encouraged to expand it. He's being encouraged. He isn't expanding.  Furthermore, if you want to try and figure out why I want it deleted, you could read my post higher up, which gives my vote and my reason.--Scimitar parley 21:11, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree that User:Maoririder is creating a lot of useless sub-stubs that I would see as CSD and is unable or unwilling to improve them. See User talk:Maoririder. Double Blue  (Talk) 21:43, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
 * All the same, I have to say some people do pretty good expansions :) --Tony Sidaway Talk 21:58, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
 * keep this please it will be expanded and it is already a good stub Yuckfoo 19:47, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, there is nothing of note about this place. -Splash 19:50, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Diversity might make the place significant, but not the school. Gazpacho 20:32, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, but please add details if possible. &mdash; Stevey7788 (talk) 20:48, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
 * keep. Classic school stub. --Tony Sidaway Talk 20:50, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: Why delete articles on schools all the time? I read Schools/Arguments, and we might as well delete articles on small towns created by Rambot. &mdash; Stevey7788 (talk) 20:51, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment:Why vote to keep crappy substubs all the times just because they happen to be about schools? Just keep a record of the fact the school needs to be included in a school project page and write something with actual content when the info is found. - Mgm|(talk) 23:50, August 3, 2005 (UTC)
 * Actually it's very rare for Wikipedia to delete a school article nowadays. In the three months May to July over 150 school articles were listed for deletion, but only was deleted during the entire period.  --Tony Sidaway Talk  20:56, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
 * As Scimitar mentioned previously, this really isn't a debate about including every school around. It's a debate about Maoririder wasting space with useless stubs and then expecting everyone else to stand in awe of him and expand them. -Soltak 21:38, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't know that he expects anything of the sort. While his stubs are minimalist, we're discussing *this* article, which is actually rather good.  Let's not delete it just because the guy who wrote it wasn't interested in expanding it.  This is a Wiki, which means that *anybody* can expand *any* article. --Tony Sidaway Talk  22:00, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't call it "rather good," but it is better than the original. The article originally nominated for deletion was this "King Middle School is located in Portland, Maine. It is across the street from Deering Oaks." How would you vote on that? -Soltak 22:05, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment. I'd have voted keep and expand, of course! VfD isn't, or shouldn't be, a beauty contest.  Ugly ducklings grow into beautiful swans. --Tony Sidaway Talk  05:42, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep verifiable and NPOV schools. This article has been improved slightly by several users to a reasonable stub. Double Blue  (Talk) 21:43, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Strong keep per Wikipedia schools arguments. -- Ianblair23 22:32, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep 24 at 22:43, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
 * M.C. Hammer keep. &mdash;RaD Man (talk) 02:13, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Looks fine now. Christopher Parham (talk) 03:59, 2005 August 4 (UTC)
 * Keep, it can't be expanded if it isn't there anymore... and Wikipedia schools arguments.-Poli (talk &bull; contribs) 05:10, 2005 August 4 (UTC)
 * Delete as written it does nothing to show any notability and is clearly not encylopedic. Vegaswikian 06:52, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, completely non-notable. Nandesuka 12:37, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Radiant_ &gt;|&lt; 13:51, August 4, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep per Wikipedia schools arguments and the inherent notability of schools. Unfocused 19:14, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
 * We keep railway stations. We keep suburbs. We keep bridges. we keep highways. We keep schools.--Gene_poole 06:56, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Railway stations are notable due to the fact that those currently in existence provide mass transit services. Suburbs are notable in that they are geographical locations. In my experience, we don't always keep bridges, nor do I personally think we should. While education is inherently notable, the building where learning occurs is not. -Soltak 19:09, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Railway stations are notable due to the fact that those currently in existence provide mass transit services. Schools are notable due to the fact (among others) that those currently in existence provide education. Double Blue  (Talk) 19:48, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
 * May provide some minimal education might be more accurate. I still don't understand how a weight loss school provides education in the traditional sense.  Vegaswikian 08:37, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I urge you to read the King Middle School website again. It is not a weight-loss school. Double Blue  (Talk) 14:25, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, being a non-notable school does not make something notable. Might I also point out how disturbing that "cabal" appears. Ganging up and voting "keep" solely on the basis of being a school defeats the purpose of Vfd.Gateman1997 18:52, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete wikishit.  Grue  19:42, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Only 1 vote for merge is pointless so delete. --Tim Pope 06:41, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete schoolcruft. And schools get kept thanks to the Pro-School Freeping Cabal, not thanks to content, or consensus, or common sense, or even eventualism. -  brenneman (t) (c)  10:54, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Strong Delete. No notability and no content. Might I also point out how disturbing that "cabal" appears. Ganging up and voting "keep" solely on the basis of being a school defeats the purpose of Vfd.Gateman1997 16:53, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Your duplicate vote has been stricken. Please only vote once.  Furthermore, please try to remain civil and not make baseless personal attacks.  &mdash;RaD Man (talk) 19:13, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
 * First off, I hadn't seen my earlier vote so I apologize for that. Secondly, that's not a personal attack, that's a fact. There is a group on here that works to keep all schools regardless of notablity. Gateman1997 00:18, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
 * How does this "group" work? YOu are aware, I hope, that the idea that schools are subject to notability is a very, very contentious one? --Tony Sidaway Talk  01:33, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
 * It's contentious certainly, but that doesn't make him wrong for raising the point. In fact, it's the reason many people vote to delete school articles; it's also the reason the group he mentioned votes to keep them. -Soltak 01:59, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
 * There's that word again: "group". Another word I've seen is "cabal". All seem to be rationalisations of the fact that people who want to delete schools aren't able to do so.  I think the hit rate is somewhere around 2%, quite extraordinary when you consider that VfDs in general have a very high chance of succeeding. --Tony Sidaway Talk  02:07, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
 * You asked for proof of a "group" that makes it their mission to "save" school articles regardless if they are notable or not. []. There they are. Gateman1997 03:14, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Your false assumption is quite insulting. If I vote to keep a school it is because I firmly believe it is notable.  Schoolwatch and other similar programs have had nothing but a positive impact on the articles it lists, in my opinion.  &mdash;RaD Man (talk) 04:18, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
 * My analysis says otherwise. - brenneman (t) (c)  05:31, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Your analysis simply appears to examine voting patterns and assign membership of a putative group on that basis. But the only thing linking those whom you assign to a group is that, for their various reasons, they do not share with you the belief that notability criteria apply to schools and they vote consistently to reflect that lack of agreement with you.  You cannot infer group membership from shared opinion.  Indeed to make matters worse my opinion, to take an example, has changed a great deal over time.  Go back to November/December and you'll find that I was of the opinion that listing schools in Wikipedia was wrong, and I even listed one or two for deletion myself.  I changed my mind.  That is permitted.  I didn't apply for membership of any group, I just changed the way I vote. --Tony Sidaway Talk  09:56, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Just thought I'd point out that this statement, "they do not share with you the belief that notability criteria apply to schools and they vote consistently to reflect that lack of agreement with you" proves exactly the point I made earlier. They don't analyze individual schools or articles on merit but rather the fact they are schools. By that logic all grocery stores, bars, and 7-Eleven locations should be kept as well. Being a school does not guarentee notablity.Gateman1997 21:14, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep per Gene Poole. arj 22:09, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep and Expand. --Blu Aardvark | (talk) 06:44, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete - see User:ESkog/Schools for justification. ESkog 16:15, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
 * If you're going by that page, wouldn't it be reasonable to merge this into a single article collecting schools at the city or district level, as opposed to deleting it? Factitious 08:06, August 9, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep Real place --malathion talk 22:49, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
 * My local grocery store is a real place... does that make it notable enough for an entry?Gateman1997 23:41, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Notable, verifiable, encyclopedic. Factitious 08:06, August 9, 2005 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.