Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Klemens Murańka


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. The consensus in favour of deletion is, unfortunately, near unanimous and it appears the subject doesn't meet our current guidelines on notability. HJ Mitchell &#124;  Penny for your thoughts?   00:41, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Klemens Murańka

 * – ( View AfD View log  •  )

Does not seem to pass WP:ATHLETE. delete UtherSRG (talk) 04:00, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment I'm not familiar very much with the inclusion criteria for ski jumpers, however, the Polish article suggests notability of this young competitor. --Vejvančický (talk | contribs) 06:23, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Each different language 'pedia has different inclusion criteria. - UtherSRG (talk) 07:11, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Could be, but the article seems to be well developed and referenced, without questioning of the notability. Btw, I think that the inclusion criteria for each Wiki should not differ substantially. --Vejvančický (talk | contribs) 07:25, 20 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Poland-related deletion discussions.  —Vejvančický (talk | contribs) 07:25, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete WP:ATHLETE, says that for amateur athletes, the competition level has to be world class - Olympics, for instance.  Doing a Google translate of the Polish article, it looks like he's one full step below that.  Quite able to compete at the national level, but hasn't won any national titles, nor competed in Olympics or World Championships.  Whether English Wiki ought to be QUITE so strict with amateurs is a good question, but that's the current standard, and I'm afraid this guy doesn't meet them.  Unless I missed something, which I might have.  David V Houston (talk) 11:55, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep. World Cup is the highest level of Ski jumping and as Muranka has competed in World Cup he passes WP:ATHLETE. KzKrann (talk) 13:39, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
 *  Comment  – has seemed to have generated quite a bit of coverage in Poland As shown in the second largest daily paper ,in Poland, Gazeta Wyborcza – also the Fakt the largest selling daily newspaper in Poland.  Additional coverage by  Wirtualna Polska – Interia, all references shown here .  My problem is my Polish is none existent and cannot verify in-depth coverage versus just mentioning.  If however, the articles are in-depth coverage, though specific to his homeland, he would pass our notability guidelines.  Thanks, ShoesssS Talk 14:31, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep - Changed to keep based on current discussions, but let comments stand. Thanks. ShoesssS Talk 20:40, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
 * And the common English speaker wouldn't be able to check the source at all, one of the reasons non-English language sources can't (? can't or shouldn't - dunno) be used for notability verification on en-wiki. - UtherSRG (talk) 14:34, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment - I disagree there. Notability is established if an individual has generated enough independent – 3 party sourcing – that is creditable.  I do not believe we distinguish between English written sources or articles written in other languages, only that they be independent – 3 party sourcing – that is creditable.  One of the reasons people use encyclopedias is to garner additional information about a subject – individual – place or thing that they are unfamiliar with or want to gain more in-depth knowledge of and not everything happens in just English speaking areas.  If we limit the sourcing to only English sources would we actually have articles on Freud, in that his writings are all in German, that are used in reference material for modern psychoanalysis.  Thanks for listening. ShoesssS Talk 14:53, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm only talking about for establishing notability. I don't mind other sources being not accessible to all readers, but the first sources for an article should be on notability, and those should be accessible to a wide audience. There's plenty of English sources showing notability for Freud, even though all of his work is in German. - UtherSRG (talk) 16:26, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Shimeru (talk) 22:31, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Athletes-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 23:39, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment: Is not the ski jump world cup considered a sufficiently high level of competition for wp:Athlete? And sources establishing notability certainly don't need to be in English (though if available, those are preferred).  On the other hand, I think he'd have a hard time passing our General Notability Guidelines; most of the articles Shoessss linked to appear to have merely passing mentions (his distance at a particular meet, for example). Buddy431 (talk) 20:57, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.


 * Keep. He participated in the FIS Ski Jumping World Cup, the highest level competition in this sport, so passes WP:ATHLETE criteria. — Kpalion(talk) 12:24, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete. Sorry, I double-checked now; he only participated in the qualifiying round in Zakopane 2010 and did not qualify. — Kpalion(talk) 20:41, 30 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Question - Can somebody point me to the source that identifies him as having competed in FIS World Cup ski jumping? Looking at his FIS stats, I see FIS Cup, and Continental Cup along with World Juniors.  But I don't see anything for a World Cup.  What this tells me is that he is a very promising Junior who has competed at just below (Continental Cup) the top level of his sport. -- Whpq (talk) 16:38, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Zakopane 2010? KzKrann (talk) 20:00, 30 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete Zakopane was not a World Cup event. It was the Conteninental Cup .  This person may well end up competing in th World Cup in the future, but right now, he is competing at one level below the top level of competition (World Cup).  As such, he fails meet WP:ATHLETE.  If somebody can pint out some significant coverage, then perhaps he meets WP:GNG, but I didn't see such coverage. -- Whpq (talk) 00:34, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment - My apologies, I missed the entry for the qualifier. He competed in the qualifiers for the World Cup.  That's still below actually qualifying and competing at the World Cup so my opinion is not changed. -- Whpq (talk) 13:04, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.