Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Knife hand

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was keep. 4 Delete / 3 Keep / 3 Redirect. No consensus. -- AllyUnion (talk) 10:50, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Not counting last vote. 3 delete.  Still no consensus. -- AllyUnion (talk) 14:54, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Knife hand
Doesn't seem notable. A search for "Choi Bae-Dal" "knife hand" on Google gets 2 results. A search for simple Knife hand gets 24,400-- likely almost none relating to this article. TheCoffee 08:37, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete as anecdote, unverified and unencyclopedic. See below. Wyss 11:12, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Excuse me, but you have to do a little more than bang a few words into Google and give a cursory glane at the results! I knew nothing about him 10 minutes ago, but have already discovered that Choi Bae-Dal (745 Google hits by the way, pretty well all for him) lived from 1922-94 in Korea and Japan.  His real name was Masutatsu Oyama, and he was a top proponant of martial arts techniques.  "In 1950, Sosai (the founder) Mas Oyama started testing (and demonstrating) his power by fighting bulls. In all, he fought 52 bulls, three of which were killed instantly, and 49 had their horns taken off with knife hand blows" There were famous Korean comic books written about his life some thirty years ago, and the fourth largest grossing movie in Korea last year was "Fighter in the Wind", Choi Bae-Dal's life story.  TheCoffee and Wyss say he "Doesn't seem notable" and "anecdote, unverified and unencyclopedic".  I don't think so, guys!   Having said all this, the article is brief and poorly written, but that just makes it a stub.  I could live with a (new) artcle on Masutatsu Oyama/Choi Bae-Dal with a re-direct from Knife hand, but otherwise keep this, and it will get sorted sometime. HowardB 15:42, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Perhaps Choi Bae-Dal is notable, but I don't think knife hand is article-worthy in his context. If there was a Choi Bae-Dal article, I would recommend the information here be merged there. Also, if "knife hand" is article worthy, it probably shouldn't be under that name, as the term "knife hand" is more commonly used to mean either a taekwondo block or the hand of someone using a knife. TheCoffee 20:18, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, article as it stands is un-encyclopaedic. Megan1967 01:12, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment. The plot thickens....  It appears we already have a Masutatsu Oyama article (this is Choi Bae-Dal's more usual name, it turns out).  So I have put a redir from Choi Bae-Dal.  Then, we have a Kyokushin article (this is a style of karate that Oyama/Choi developed -- now HUGE worldwide).  In here, we have a better life of Oyama than in the main article!   Also, the Masutatsu Oyama article appears to be a straight lift from Exsudo.com.  So, when I have some time, I propose to:
 * merge what little there is in knife hand into Masutatsu Oyama and redirect
 * take the life of Oyama piece from Kyokushin and merge it into Masutatsu Oyama (and put a prominent "See also" link into Kyokushin
 * fix possible copyvio problem in Masutatsu Oyama
 * Why do I get my self into these things! Any objections?  HowardB 02:24, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * As the one who put the on the article in the first place, that's fine by me.  Keep pending Cleanup by HowardB. Exsudo.com is a copy of Wikipedia, not vice versa, by the way.  Uncle G 13:52, 2005 Feb 14 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the clarification on who copied who. I'll work on it tomorrow HowardB 15:27, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Martial arts moves/techniques should be included. &mdash; Brim 12:42, Feb 14, 2005 (UTC)
 * Redirect (no merge) to Strike (attack). "Knife hand strike" is the proper term for what's more commonly called a "karate chop".   &mdash; Gwalla | Talk 00:24, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Redirect per Gwalla. &mdash;Korath (Talk) 12:16, Feb 15, 2005 (UTC)
 * Redirect (no merge). Having looked at Strike (attack) and a few other martial atrs sites, I concur with what Gwalla and Korath suggest.  If that is the agreed outcome, I would still go ahead and
 * take the life of Oyama piece from Kyokushin and merge it into Masutatsu Oyama (and put a prominent "See also" link into Kyokushin) (see above).
 * The other two action points I made up there are/would be moot. HowardB 02:05, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * Delete, not an encyclopaedic article. JamesBurns 07:27, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.