Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kohana (web framework) (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. JForget 02:33, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Kohana (web framework)
AfDs for this article: 
 * – ( View AfD View log  •  )

The previous AfD discussion resulted in "no consensus", however the article still fails WP:GNG as it has not received significant coverage outside blogs, howtos, forums or news. While it appears this framework is gaining popularity inside projects like "Gallery", it still fails WP:GNG. Ekerazha (talk) 14:55, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Software-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 18:41, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Weak delete. I've search again for this, but only trivial mentions in google books, and no mentions on phparch.com, where Yii had a couple of articles. I did find one article  on Packt's website though. Not sure what to make of dealtaker.com, it's a pretty long 4-part tutorial . But, it's fair to say that this one it's less notable than Yii. Willing to change my mind if other sources are found. Pcap  ping  22:34, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah it is and Yii has been mentioned on Packt's website too (Packt will publish a book on Yii soon), but please note Yii is not relevant here, this is a discussion about Kohana. Ekerazha (talk) 23:26, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Really? I did not find anything about Yii on Pakckt's site. Pcap ping  09:07, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it was a call to submit a cover for the book that will be released, but it has been removed now (apparently they have chosen the definitive book cover), but as I've already said this is not relevant here. Please add WP:GNG compliant sources for Kohana if any. Ekerazha (talk) 09:28, 22 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep. So funny. Many sites uses this php-web-framework and many peoples supports it and creates projects. Ok, you can say that "Kohana not needed", but it isn't reason to delete it from wiki. We have a lot of sites and blogs about Kohana, as example:[], [], [] etc. If you want this framework to die, it might be good idea to say it to authors and, if they agrees with you, you(or they) can delete this page. It's simple, is it not? iorlas (talk) 02:16, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * — Iorlas (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * These sources are not notable, please read WP:GNG. This is an encyclopedia not an advertising site. Ekerazha (talk) 08:28, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, what about "mostinspired.com"? [] Or "bayondcoding.com"? [] Maybe "return-true.com"? [] Can you search sites in google? Why you ignored net.tuts+? []. I can also show you many and many russian resources, but i see what every wiki member, who requests to delete pages, hates russian resources(maybe racism? i dont want to throw this-like words). This is no AD, this(acticle in wiki) is information, this is collection of information about framework and it's urls. 80.70.236.61 (talk) 16:21, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Please also read WP:ATA and WP:ATA about arguments to avoid. Ekerazha (talk) 08:45, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * What about comparison of frameworks? In this case it in WP:ATA, becouse somebody may wants to find best framework for his project. He can find comparison of frameworks in wiki and choose Kohana. But what next? He want to know more about it! What he want to see? Yes - Kohana (web framework). What happen if he cant find this page? He can do wrong choose. Yes, it is reason to keep this article becouse of WP:ATA. You want me to read "about arguments to avoid"? Maybe it will be good for you, but i know what i write. HH.ru one of most popular IT res in russia. Can you understand? [] It has over 6k visitors per day. You can simply read Habrahabr.ru. Also, i give link to blog, which means it approved by many and many people. Otherwise articles from this blog will be stuck in personal blog of author. 80.70.236.61 (talk) 16:21, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Blogspot also has bazillions of hits per day, but that doesn't make any particular blog there highly-read or a reliable source. Pcap ping  16:34, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Feel the difference: hosting of separeted blogs and blogs system, which aims to get good articles in themed blogs in ONE site. 80.70.236.61 (talk) 17:19, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Please read WP:ATA and WP:ATA again as you're still using the same invalid arguments. WP:ATA says the "it's useful" argument is invalid, not the opposite. Please read WP:ATA as that argument is invalid too. Also, open wikis, blogs etc. are not WP:GNG compliant as they are not reliable sources (it doesn't really matter if it is popular or not). Also, please sign-in yourself instead of being anonymous. Ekerazha (talk) 09:05, 24 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep This is a well established framework with a good community behind it, including some very good documentation (which is rare for most open source project, particularly ones that do not have a big/popular following) I've personally found this article useful just today, by getting some project history that wasn't easy to find through a search engine. rcross —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.70.125.157 (talk) 12:23, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * — Rcross (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * This is not relevant at all, please read WP:ATA about invalid arguments. Ekerazha (talk) 14:04, 24 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep This is surely a notable framework by being one of the first php HMVC frameworks out there. This same talk (also based on kohana) will be held at the DPC(Dutch PHP Conference) one of the biggest php conferences in europe  the talk is named here:  Rjd22 (talk) 09:29, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * — Rjd22 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.


 * "One of the first" does not equal "notable". —Psychonaut (talk) 10:35, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, be mentioned along with dozens of other softwares in a dutch conference, doesn't really make it notable. Ekerazha (talk) 11:51, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete. So far none of the sources presented here meet our criteria for establishing notability, and I haven't been able to find any further ones myself. —Psychonaut (talk) 10:35, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment About popularity inside projects like "Gallery", please note the WP:ATA argument is also not valid. Ekerazha (talk) 11:55, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment Risk of meatpuppetry (direct links to this page) . Ekerazha (talk) 12:03, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep Packt publishing are in the process of publishing a book entitled 'Beginning with Kohana PHP 3', if someone wants to contact me I will pass on more details. Sam de Freyssinet
 * When it will be published you'll have 1 reliable source (probably not sufficient to be notable), however there's nothing now, so they seem to be zero atm. Ekerazha (talk) 12:38, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * If/when the book is published, it may then count as a reliable source establishing notability for the subject of this article, and the article (if it is indeed deleted as a result of this discussion) can be recreated. The text of the article can always be recovered through WP:DRV. —Psychonaut (talk) 12:41, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, JForget  00:23, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.

Note : Relisted due to votes made by multiple single-purpose accounts. -- JForget 00:25, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete I can't find significant analysis of this framework in multiple, reliable sources. The meatpuppetry through this and the earlier AfD bothers me.  Them  From  Space  01:02, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete - I don't see any sources to show notability either. And I too share concerns about meatpuppetry. --  At am a  頭 18:26, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep - Kohana is one of the latest and best OO PHP frameworks along with Yii. I was looking for a concise summary and history of the framework which is how I came across the Wikipedia page for it, just to find that people are thinking of deleting it, which is ridiculous when Kohana is a community driven project and would get no benefit per se from a Wikipedia page. If you delete Kohana you may as well delete every other PHP framework page from Wikipedia. -- Sheldmandu 00:23, 2 March 2010 (UTC) — Sheldmandu (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Reply - If they have the same lack of notability, then perhaps they should be deleted as well. --  At am a  頭 00:27, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Yii was already deleted. Pcap ping  19:29, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * If you look here Comparison_of_web_application_frameworks most of them could be deleted, I've already added the notability tag to most of the not-notable ones and I'll open an AfD for them asap (maybe when the ridiculous CoI discussion opened against me by the developer of one of the products I tagged will be resolved). Ekerazha (talk) 18:19, 3 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete There don't appear to be any reliable sources to establish notability.  AniMate   02:25, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete per the lack of reliable sources. A Google News Archive search (with the search term: "Kohana" application) returns no relevant results. Likewise, a Google Book search (with the same search term) returns no substantial results. The best I could find was this passing mention. Cunard (talk) 08:21, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.